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‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

politico.com

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Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#61

Post by AndrewBissell »

opan wrote: post #36
colordrops wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering the nature of the rest of the comments in this thread, I'm sure this will be completely taboo. There is a strong argument that the three letter agencies let this happen to further the agendas of the monied elite, and the media owned by that same elite class did everything they could to bury the truth. I don't expect this comment to last long here, but it's it no way an absurd assessment of the nature of t…

Can you tell me more? Any guesses to how it furthered agendas? It certainly changed stuff like airport security. I could see it being allowed to happen to make people take the war on terror more seriously. It would depend on how much of the current state of things could be predicted to determine reasoning. I'm sure even in the internet age there is plenty of forbidden knowledge.

The "war on terror" has served as justification for:

- permanent mass surveillance of global communications

- total governmental control and visibility into fiat money financial transactions

- endless U.S. participation in or support for military campaigns in Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Libya, and Syria, and the concomitant trillions spent on military hardware and services

- increasingly lawless privacy intrusions at U.S. border crossings

- a huge cottage industry of corrupt dealings as detailed in the WikiLeaks dumps

It's not even necessary to believe any conspiracy theories to recognize that the events of 9/11 lent direct support to a multitude of imperialist and corporatist agendas.

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#62

Post by dredmorbius »

sopooneo wrote: post #32
dredmorbius wrote: post #2

This is a phenomenal oral history of the events, learning of, and response to the events of 9/11. If an emergency is a circumstance in which ongoing realities are emergent and aren't predictable based on previous experience or world-models, this is a phenomenal example of those dynamics. Commander Anthony Barnes: That first hour was mass confusion because there was so much erroneous information. It was hard to tell w…

I'm going to piggy-back on this about a certain way information may not add up. I live in Boston, and so do my siblings. We all worked downtown. On the day of the marathon bombing, I immediately called my sister on her cell phone to see if she was okay. Someone that was not my sister picked up, then immediatly hung up after I said who I was looking for. I was immediately terrified. What if my sister had been hurt, dr…

Overloaded, stressed, and/or damaged systems often act unpredictably.

What precipitated the mis-routing is an interesting question. Perhaps multiple devices switching in/out of a particular cell or node faster than the routing system could accommodate?

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#63

Post by solveit »

colordrops wrote: post #39
9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor

Was Hitler just "stupid"? Hanlon's razor is used by the malicious to fool the stupid.

Stupidity does not adequately explain the Holocaust...

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#64

Post by dredmorbius »

paxys wrote: post #60

So weird to see such a detailed article on the critical moments after the attack which basically doesn't even mention the President.

The article is a book exerpt, essentially a chapter of a larger work.

The chapter addressing the President, then in Florida, has been posted elsewhere in this thread, it's here:

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/09/were-the-onl...

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#65

Post by dredmorbius »

c22 wrote: post #48
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an emergency is a circumstance in which ongoing realities are emergent and aren't predictable based on previous experience or world-models, this is a phenomenal example of those dynamics I like this characterization somewhat, though I think there needs to be a [perceived danger] variable not accounted for. Perhaps: An emergency is a circumstance in which realities are perceived as existentially dangerous and aren'…

I agree, otherwise the OP is just describing Burning Man.

I'd argue that BM shifts the norm, but then tends to stop emerging past a point. In emergencies, the situation just keeps evolving. Well past normal or safe limits.

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#66

Post by reitanqild »

cameldrv wrote: post #51
Noctem wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I've never heard of that happening. If anyone knows, I'd love to hear a technical explanation of how and why that could occur.

I don't have a technical explanation, but I had a few weirdly misconnected calls and even a call that changed to another person in the middle of a call in the analog cell phone days.

Back when I grew up there would sometimes be some steange noises or eerie silence or something when we was on the phone. We used to joke that "they are just listening in", but I guess no one believed that except possibly my mum. (There wasn't much interesting going on.)

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#67

Post by lonelappde »

zuppy wrote: post #56

I have a book recommendation that completes this article: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/148775 It is called “The Day the World Came to Town: 9/11 in Gander, Newfoundland” and it tells the story of how after the US air space has been shut down the wonderful people of Newfoundland managed to host 7000 people that were forced to land in there, in a town of 10000.

Also hit musical

wikipedia.org/wiki/Come_from_Away

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#68

Post by baybal2 »

I do remember listening news on the radio just a day or two after. Immediately in my head, I thought "something Saudi happened."

A week after, when it finally got clear that those were indeed Saudis, I though for myself "there is no way Saudis will be coming out of that now."

Few years later, still in my yearly teens, I kept catching myself in disbelief of American logic. Not only did Americans spare the Saudis, but Washington went out of its way and did every thing possible to extricate Riyadh from the backlash.

Not only they came dry out of the water, but they got out of that better off than before. US took down Saddam for them, and took upon the Ikhwan ul Muslimin — the only thing in the world Saudis feared. Not to say they got much higher diplomatic standing, and near free defence contracts as a result. Anything like that would've been unthinkable before.

In 2004, I was reading a newspaper, and saw a big photo of Bush and some Saudi prince enthusiastically shaking hands together, I was not able to contain my laughter.

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