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‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

politico.com

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Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#51

Post by cameldrv »

Noctem wrote: post #33
sopooneo wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm going to piggy-back on this about a certain way information may not add up. I live in Boston, and so do my siblings. We all worked downtown. On the day of the marathon bombing, I immediately called my sister on her cell phone to see if she was okay. Someone that was not my sister picked up, then immediatly hung up after I said who I was looking for. I was immediately terrified. What if my sister had been hurt, dr…

Wow, I've never heard of that happening. If anyone knows, I'd love to hear a technical explanation of how and why that could occur.

I don't have a technical explanation, but I had a few weirdly misconnected calls and even a call that changed to another person in the middle of a call in the analog cell phone days.

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#52

Post by [deleted] »

sopooneo wrote: post #32
dredmorbius wrote: post #2

This is a phenomenal oral history of the events, learning of, and response to the events of 9/11. If an emergency is a circumstance in which ongoing realities are emergent and aren't predictable based on previous experience or world-models, this is a phenomenal example of those dynamics. Commander Anthony Barnes: That first hour was mass confusion because there was so much erroneous information. It was hard to tell w…

I'm going to piggy-back on this about a certain way information may not add up. I live in Boston, and so do my siblings. We all worked downtown. On the day of the marathon bombing, I immediately called my sister on her cell phone to see if she was okay. Someone that was not my sister picked up, then immediatly hung up after I said who I was looking for. I was immediately terrified. What if my sister had been hurt, dr…

[deleted]

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#53

Post by stevenhuang »

dredmorbius wrote: post #2

This is a phenomenal oral history of the events, learning of, and response to the events of 9/11. If an emergency is a circumstance in which ongoing realities are emergent and aren't predictable based on previous experience or world-models, this is a phenomenal example of those dynamics. Commander Anthony Barnes: That first hour was mass confusion because there was so much erroneous information. It was hard to tell w…

This reminds of the Outside Context Problem, from Bank's Culture series: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excession#Outside_Context_Prob...

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#54

Post by rmason »

I was headed downtown to my startup's office when I heard a radio newscast. I don't even know why I had my radio on as it was a pretty short drive.

I immediately went in and started checking the web. It gave me a little more information. Fifteen minutes later when my developer showed up you couldn't bring up any news site on the web.

Guy from across the hall had a TV and he invited all of us in the building to watch. We watched the TV for around an hour and at that point we all made the decision to call it a day.

Got home and think I watched TV for the next 14 hours or so. After a while there was no new information, they just kept repeating themselves on every news channel. I can remember just feeling numb. It was just so unexpected to see the US attacked.

My father said it was worse than Pearl Harbor. People at that time expected war was coming. Most American's at the time had never even heard of Pearl Harbor, much less Hawaii. This was in our living rooms and it was New York and Washington. Now I measure everything in pre-9-11 and post 9-11 because things changed that dramatically.

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#55

Post by dredmorbius »

stevenhuang wrote: post #53
dredmorbius wrote: post #2

This is a phenomenal oral history of the events, learning of, and response to the events of 9/11. If an emergency is a circumstance in which ongoing realities are emergent and aren't predictable based on previous experience or world-models, this is a phenomenal example of those dynamics. Commander Anthony Barnes: That first hour was mass confusion because there was so much erroneous information. It was hard to tell w…

This reminds of the Outside Context Problem, from Bank's Culture series: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excession#Outside_Context_Prob...

Certainly similar, yes. Thanks.

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#56

Post by zuppy »

I have a book recommendation that completes this article: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/148775

It is called “The Day the World Came to Town: 9/11 in Gander, Newfoundland” and it tells the story of how after the US air space has been shut down the wonderful people of Newfoundland managed to host 7000 people that were forced to land in there, in a town of 10000.

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#57

Post by Aeolun »

colordrops wrote: post #39
9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity." -Hanlon's Razor

Was Hitler just "stupid"? Hanlon's razor is used by the malicious to fool the stupid.

You think Hitlers behaviour would be adequately explained by stupidity?

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#58

Post by paxys »

plutonorm wrote: post #38
philwelch wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's also chilling, when you think about it a little more, is that a group of civilian passengers made more or less the same decision, and that's the reason these fighter pilots survived the day .

Hmm, it seems a little convenient that they didn't have to shoot the plane down. Do we have any evidence that they didn't shoot the plane down and then construct the passengers saving the day story after the fact?

So there's a conspiracy involving every level of the US government, the US Air Force, D.C. Air National Guard, the NTSB and possibly more, over...something that would be completely acceptable to do under the circumstances?

Re: ‘We May Have to Shoot Down This Aircraft’

#59

Post by dredmorbius »

rmason wrote: post #54

I was headed downtown to my startup's office when I heard a radio newscast. I don't even know why I had my radio on as it was a pretty short drive. I immediately went in and started checking the web. It gave me a little more information. Fifteen minutes later when my developer showed up you couldn't bring up any news site on the web. Guy from across the hall had a TV and he invited all of us in the building to watch.…

A lot of the Web wasn't geared for high load. Information was developing so rapidly that online was really the only effective place to go for information (such as it was -- there was rampant speculation). Many sites rapidly slimmed down their services and offered lightweight versions. A few lighter-weight sites remained up, notably, at the time, Slashdot.

NPR refers to 9/11 as the event which made clear that the network needed to have full capabilities to broadcast from a secondary location, and began planning for its west-coast hub (in Los Angeles) shortly after. Its flagship news programmes are now co-anchored from both Washington and Los Angeles.

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