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Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

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131–140 of 178 posts

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#131
post #83
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The German series "Babylon Berlin" [1] is a fictive series about the Weimar Republic before the Nazis got to power. Berlin Alexanderplatz is apparently also about Berlin the 1920s. It is from 1980, by famous director Rainer Werner Fassbinder. The entire miniseries is ~15,5 hours long. I have yet to see it before my death... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Babylon_Berlin [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Alex…

Berlin Alexanderplatz is definitely worth the investment of time if you have any interest in modern German history and culture. Less time than "Breaking Bad" or "The Walking Dead."

And Babylon Berlin is also well worth it - great mise-en-scène, recreation of the time and place (I think... wasn't there :-) and a captivating police/thriller/extortion/revolution story.

And it introduces a bit of the political background (the rise of both the communists and the fascists and their assault on the republic), but not annoyingly so.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#132
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well even though my minority position on this issue will downvote my comment I will still write it. As most on this thread are not willing to talk the real culprit behind this protest which is economic inequality and no hope for future development. As I mentioned in my earlier posts, these protests are manifestation of inherent economic inequality in Hong Kong society. The youth in Hong Kong cannot afford a house. Th…

Britain wanted to give HK democracy in the 1960s, but China said they would invade. Britain democratized and/or gave independence to basically every other colony at that time. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/28/world/asia/china-began-pu...

Was it a democracy when it was a colony?

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to go all the way to "origins in countries with environmental and labor protection" in order to not buy from china. There's plenty of countries with equally lax environmental and labor protections that are far less oppressive and authoritarian while offering goods at close to the same cost.

You could also recognize those protections were put in for a reason and thus support the economies of countries willing to put up with the economical handicap of enacting them in order to better the overall lives of its people.

I'm just skimming and here's some interesting parts (no summary is currently available)

> “(2) instructing the United States Consulate in Hong Kong to maintain an active list of individuals whom are known to have been detained, arrested, or otherwise targeted by the Government of Hong Kong or of China, or intermediaries of such governments, as a result of their participation in the 2014 protests, to facilitate the cross-checking of visa applications for Hong Kong residents;

> “(4) instructing personnel at the United States Consulate in Hong Kong to engage with relevant individuals in the Hong Kong community to proactively inform them that they will not face discrimination when applying for a visa to the United States due to any adverse action taken against them by the authorities as a result of their participation in the 2014 protests or other peaceful pro-democracy or human rights demonstrations.

There's also a lot of talk about the social credit system, China becoming a tech hub (they even mention that HK is being used to export stuff into China that shouldn't be), forced confessions, sanctions, and lots about human rights.

It's also bipartisan.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#134
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I realized my post was not clear. I 100% support HK protester! I 100% condemn HK police and authorities. Just wanted to point that despite the fact most of us live in democracy, police can act super violently against protestors, and we don't necessarily realize it before it happens. We need to support HK protestor, and also keep fighting for democracy where we live

In a democracy you have recourse when abused by the police. In a dictatorship, police is just a tool of the ruler to control the population.

In any government you might have recourse against the police. There have been benevolent rulers through all time. In a democracy, the police are still the tool for the rich and powerful, and whether you're in Putin's democracy or the US's democracy, the police have to keep up appearances.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I couldn't disagree with you more. Economic inequality and no hope for future triggers world wars and revolutions. This bears same signs. If you see China as a single homogeneous place then there is no point to even argue. Even two individuals are not same painting 1.4 billion people with single brush, I can't even fathom. Hong Kong is similar in culture to few parts of China not all of China. As China is also divers…

> If you see China as a single homogeneous place then there is no point to even argue. I said "more homogeneous". Please re-read my statement. EDIT - You make it sound like I completely disagree with you regarding the implicatications of economic inequality. I do not. I said it may be a contributing factor to a complicated issue. Clearly there are cultural differences between HK and China. I am not sure you have a fi…

>> Ireland

Is it? You can find a straight-face porn studio next to a LinkedIn office and an embassy in Dublin.

Guess who’s paying taxes?

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#136
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Britain wanted to give HK democracy in the 1960s, but China said they would invade. Britain democratized and/or gave independence to basically every other colony at that time. https://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/28/world/asia/china-began-pu...

I already commented on this issue on another post so won't repeat again. Britain never had intention to give democracy to Hong Kong which will require it to make economic contributions to a colony. Their first priority has always been to safeguard their own economic interests. [1] [1] https://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/1419999...

Your comment doesn't explain why the British wouldn't have democratized Hong Kong when they did for all their other colonies at that time. And the SCMP is not a reliable source when it comes to British rule of Hong Kong.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#137

What can you do about this? Pretty much nothing. China is the second largest economy in the world, and has the second most powerful military. In addition, what they view as the integrity of China is one of their biggest priorities. In addition, they have always viewed British control of Hong Kong as a national humiliation and are bent on erasing all traces of that memory. The way it stands right now, China can inflic…

> What can you do about this? Pretty much nothing. China is the second largest economy in the world, and has the second most powerful military. While there were certainly issues with TPP[0], it would have given us some options in regards to China which we no longer have. AFAIK, that was a large part of the point of TPP. We could have had Australia, Brunei, Canada, Chile, Japan, Malaysia, Mexico, New Zealand, Peru, Si…

Well it would have helped if the TPP didn't give the Copyright Cartel everything it wanted.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you see China as a single homogeneous place then there is no point to even argue. I said "more homogeneous". Please re-read my statement. EDIT - You make it sound like I completely disagree with you regarding the implicatications of economic inequality. I do not. I said it may be a contributing factor to a complicated issue. Clearly there are cultural differences between HK and China. I am not sure you have a fi…

>> Ireland Is it? You can find a straight-face porn studio next to a LinkedIn office and an embassy in Dublin. Guess who’s paying taxes?

On a relative basis, I would say Ireland has done well. There are hundreds of countries which are worst off. It's easy to be critical. Name any major top 10 country and I could give you a litany of faults...

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#139

What can you do about this? Pretty much nothing. China is the second largest economy in the world, and has the second most powerful military. In addition, what they view as the integrity of China is one of their biggest priorities. In addition, they have always viewed British control of Hong Kong as a national humiliation and are bent on erasing all traces of that memory. The way it stands right now, China can inflic…

> What can you do about this? Pretty much nothing.

A lot. And what you can do depends who you are.

Hongkongers can keep doing what they are doing. I'm sorry, but killing everyone in HK is not an option for China. Not only would it start a global war, as genocides tend to do, it would create unrest in the mainland, and frankly people are a resource. You can't govern the dead. I frequently hear the arguments from Americans "well you can't fight the military". Except that's been done for centuries, caused many countries to come into existence (including, ironically, America), and caused many countries to have large economic pains (cough Britain fighting America cough, Vietnam, Iraq, etc). That idea just doesn't match history, because of one simple thing "you can't govern the dead". People are a resource that governments need. You have to ask yourself "why hasn't China brought the military in already?" They are flexing, but there's good reasons they haven't brought in their military.

In fact, they want you to believe nothing can be done. They want you to give up. (I'm not just talking to hongkongers here)

From the Western side there's also a lot we can do. There's a huge amount of economic pressure we can put on China (for now, the still need us more that we need them). We can grant asylum to refugees. There's a lot of political pressure that can happen. There's also a lot of military pressure that can happen behind the scenes (I wouldn't be surprised if this already exists in some way, because China certainly does it to us), be that propoganda, cyber, or training.

There's even more that can be done. But I find this notion of nothing can be done as ridiculous and backwards. It is giving up hope and ignoring both history and reality.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#140

How can people in Europe and US help?

Accept more asylum and immigration petitions from Hong Kong residents that want to get out. Help them bring their money with them. Publish and broadcast Cantonese-language information encouraging skilled and educated people to leave Hong Kong. Hong Kong is China. No one disputes it. These protests cannot be seen as anything other than a rearguard action to cover the retreat of those who don't want to be ruled by Beij…

The US can't easily absorb so many people unless they're dirt poor and willing to live 20 to an apartment. That many middle-class people will make the traffic situation far worse, because the US absolutely refuses to build more densely and build more public transit to make cities walkable. It's not a good place to live at all.
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