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Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

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Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#101

Post by tomatotomato37 »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #61
corey_moncure wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What can you do about this? Pretty much nothing. One thing you can definitely do is stop buying a lot of cheap made-in-China shovelware you don't need. It is more expensive and more difficult to purchase items with origins in countries with environmental and labor protection, but not impossible.

You don't need to go all the way to "origins in countries with environmental and labor protection" in order to not buy from china. There's plenty of countries with equally lax environmental and labor protections that are far less oppressive and authoritarian while offering goods at close to the same cost.

You could also recognize those protections were put in for a reason and thus support the economies of countries willing to put up with the economical handicap of enacting them in order to better the overall lives of its people.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#102

Post by ddeck »

Aeolun wrote: post #74
notzuck wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why haven't the protesters said this is one of their main issues?

Universal suffrage is a great way to get a lot of this changed. If your only choices for CEO are billionaires or their friends, there isn’t much you can do (if you can vote at all).

if you can vote at all

You cannot, when it comes to the executive branch. The Chief Executive is "elected" by a ~1200 person election committee, which is heavily stacked in the interest of business and Beijing.

The candidates must be nominated by the same committee, and must be supportive of the central government (China).

In reality, the central government liaison office does whatever is necessary to ensure their preferred candidate is elected.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#103

Post by dragonsh »

Aeolun wrote: post #74
notzuck wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why haven't the protesters said this is one of their main issues?

Universal suffrage is a great way to get a lot of this changed. If your only choices for CEO are billionaires or their friends, there isn’t much you can do (if you can vote at all).

Economic issue should have been raised in protest and could have converted to mass movement to reject a house of car park size or make it illegal for developer to build such home. Force government through peaceful protest to take measures like Singapore for house, health and education.

Universal suffrage is not a panacea, indeed in many democracies money decides who become the head of state. In two largest democracy USA and India its not possible to win elections without the support of billionaire or being a billionaire.

Funny part in Hong Kong Uber is illegal and Taxi license is traded at astronomical prices and govt can't do anything due to powerful taxi union lobby (consisting mostly of taxi owners), they also involve in HK CEO election. In universal suffrage it will still be similar large number of bodies with vested interests.

So a structural change won't happen unless it's really part of the protest.

Recently read one another view on democracy quite interesting, although do not agree with it. [1]

[1] https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2019/09/08/shawn-ros...

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#104

Post by mnm1 »

rwmj wrote: post #54
dragonsh wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well even though my minority position on this issue will downvote my comment I will still write it. As most on this thread are not willing to talk the real culprit behind this protest which is economic inequality and no hope for future development. As I mentioned in my earlier posts, these protests are manifestation of inherent economic inequality in Hong Kong society. The youth in Hong Kong cannot afford a house. Th…

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Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#105

Post by tmwporiejdjr »

dirtyid wrote: post #87
notzuck wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why haven't the protesters said this is one of their main issues?

The same reason young, social media savvy altrighters in the west dog-whistle. There's parallels in HK nativism behind these protests similar to your familiar altright talking points. A bunch of mainland immigrants "locusts" to HK to buy up real estate and perverting civilized colonial values. At the end of the day, it's a bunch of ignorant kids stewing over lost economic and social privileges and reminiscing about a…

> The same reason young, social media savvy altrighters in the west dog-whistle. There's parallels in HK nativism behind these protests similar to your familiar altright talking points.

Yeah I stopped reading after this. The only person talking like an alt-right is you.

The fact that you think Hk people think mainlander are “locust” reflects a lot about your perspective and upbringing.

In fact, I have only heard mainlanders on the streets calling these protesters “cockroaches”. Not the other way around. I am neither pro or against these protestors.

I hope you seek the help you need. Mental health is no joke.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#106

Post by wutbrodo »

dragonsh wrote: post #48
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #17

What can you do about this? Pretty much nothing. China is the second largest economy in the world, and has the second most powerful military. In addition, what they view as the integrity of China is one of their biggest priorities. In addition, they have always viewed British control of Hong Kong as a national humiliation and are bent on erasing all traces of that memory. The way it stands right now, China can inflic…

Well even though my minority position on this issue will downvote my comment I will still write it. As most on this thread are not willing to talk the real culprit behind this protest which is economic inequality and no hope for future development. As I mentioned in my earlier posts, these protests are manifestation of inherent economic inequality in Hong Kong society. The youth in Hong Kong cannot afford a house. Th…

> Britain is as much to blame for this situation,

Anybody who doesn't think that modern Britain is the world's ultimate supervillain has a dramatically-warped view of history. But the blood on British hands and Britain's current denial/abdication of responsibility is the geopolitical backdrop of pretty much the entire non-Western world, and it's unfortunately pretty much immaterial to the situation on the ground.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#107

Post by rdlecler1 »

dragonsh wrote: post #48
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #17

What can you do about this? Pretty much nothing. China is the second largest economy in the world, and has the second most powerful military. In addition, what they view as the integrity of China is one of their biggest priorities. In addition, they have always viewed British control of Hong Kong as a national humiliation and are bent on erasing all traces of that memory. The way it stands right now, China can inflic…

Well even though my minority position on this issue will downvote my comment I will still write it. As most on this thread are not willing to talk the real culprit behind this protest which is economic inequality and no hope for future development. As I mentioned in my earlier posts, these protests are manifestation of inherent economic inequality in Hong Kong society. The youth in Hong Kong cannot afford a house. Th…

The people running Britain then are mostly dead. Are you saying that subsequent generations of individuals and leaders can’t have new opinions and that they wouldn’t do things differently today?

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#108

Post by dirtyid »

tmwporiejdjr wrote: post #105
dirtyid wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same reason young, social media savvy altrighters in the west dog-whistle. There's parallels in HK nativism behind these protests similar to your familiar altright talking points. A bunch of mainland immigrants "locusts" to HK to buy up real estate and perverting civilized colonial values. At the end of the day, it's a bunch of ignorant kids stewing over lost economic and social privileges and reminiscing about a…

> The same reason young, social media savvy altrighters in the west dog-whistle. There's parallels in HK nativism behind these protests similar to your familiar altright talking points. Yeah I stopped reading after this. The only person talking like an alt-right is you. The fact that you think Hk people think mainlander are “locust” reflects a lot about your perspective and upbringing. In fact, I have only heard main…

>The fact that you think Hk people think mainlander are “locust” reflects a lot about your perspective and upbringing.

Yes it is a fact [1], facts are useful when discussing topics. This is a well publicized event that reflects HK/mainland dynamics since handover. Only ignorant people discount HK nativism when trying to understand the context of protests in the city.

>I am neither pro or against these protestors.

I believe you, you're just ignorant - only an uninformed person would claim "only heard mainlanders on the streets calling these protesters “cockroaches”, let alone confidently claim it as fact. The animosity between HK and mainland is not exactly a mystery phenomenon. This is 101 level material.

>I hope you seek help you need. Mental health is no joke.

I hope you seek information, better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt etc etc. Extremely poor showing for a first comment.

[1] https://www.scmp.com/article/991355/anger-mainland-visitors-...

>A row between Hongkongers and mainlanders is reaching boiling point after internet users raised more than HK$100,000 in less than a week to finance a full-page 'anti-locust' advertisement in a Chinese-language newspaper in the city.

...

>[Mainlanders] have already crossed our bottom line,' said Yung Jhon, who refused to disclose his real name. 'Why are mainland mothers flooding in to take up resources in public hospitals, getting our benefits and social welfare? Why do mainlanders ... refuse to follow our rules and order? We can't accept that.

Nothing alt-righty about that, no siree.

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#109

Post by vkou »

adamnemecek wrote: post #2

How can people in Europe and US help?

We can stop repressing domestic protestors, so that we won't be the pot calling the kettle black.

Or, if we aren't interested in doing that, contemplate this may be none of our business, just like police brutality at home is none of China's business.

Or, consider it a third way - we as a society are incapable, or unwilling in reigning in police brutality against domestic protestors. What makes you think we are at all capable of bringing such a change to another country, when we can't even do it to our own?

Re: Eyewitnesses describe brutal beatings by HK police

#110

Post by Junk_Collector »

akvadrako wrote: post #71
adamnemecek wrote: post #2

How can people in Europe and US help?

Stay out of it; this is an internal Chinese issue. Imagine if China started trying to help Antifa or alt-right protestors shut down an airport in the US. That kind of interference could lead to war.

They do; I thought that this was common knowledge.

A quick example from a few years ago http://content.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,135999,...

See also last election.

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