Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 310 posts

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#191

Post by otakucode »

teknopaul wrote: post #141
Reelin wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what's going on there is that one of the e-cigs they used had a configurable temperature (200-600 °F). I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they selected a reasonable one (they don't appear to specify in the methods). Separately, there's the GC-MS machine - oven (30 - 220 °C ramp) and inlet (320 °C). This shouldn't be (much of) an issue though, as an inert carrier gas is used. Plus you alwa…

Recreational cigarette smoking? I've never met such a creature. Your either hooked or your not.

In the medical literature there is a classification referred to as a "chipper" who generally smokes only 1 or 2 cigarettes a week on average. Humans are many and varied.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#192

Post by ineedasername »

ChrisLTD wrote: post #187

It is darkly humorous that the US Government is freaking out over five vaping deaths, but the weekly shooting sprees have led to zero new gun restrictions at the national level.

Some parts of the government, such as the CDC, take their jobs seriously. I think think you can make a direct comparison from them to career politicians & their inaction on a given issue.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#193

Post by metamet »

otakucode wrote: post #182
zelienople wrote: post #152

Several things have failed to show up in the comments that might illuminate this discussion. (1) The condition is called lipoid pneumonia, which comes from inhaling organic fats and oils. (2) The CDC reports and early studies indicate that the condition has appeared in some people who only vaped with nicotine in glycerol (which is also sometimes called glycerin or glycerine). (3) Glycerol (the Christmas molecule--HO…

Whatever the cause, it has to be something extremely subtle and very unlikely to occur. We know that from the simple numbers. Tens of millions of people vaping on an hourly basis for years amounting to ~500 cases means that whatever is occurring is a freak occurrence and not some direct consequence that has a high likelihood of occurring in typical people.

And isn't one of the common threads within this whole thing the presence of Vitamin E acetate within the oil?

Earlier reports were suggesting that contaminated oils may be part of the cause, which could explain why all these cases are hitting at once. Not sure on the process of making these oils, but I could see new methods being introduced causing unforeseen side affects.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#194

Post by umvi »

ChrisLTD wrote: post #187

It is darkly humorous that the US Government is freaking out over five vaping deaths, but the weekly shooting sprees have led to zero new gun restrictions at the national level.

Ironically, you call out 5 vaping deaths as being high hanging fruit implying that mass shootings are low hanging fruit. In reality, mass shootings are exactly them same (64 people have died this year from mass shootings so far).

Meanwhile there's tons of real low hanging fruit with thousands and tens of thousands of lives at stake that never get any national dialogue at all because it's not outrageous, controversial, or politically advantageous enough to make it in the news like vape deaths and mass shooting deaths are.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#195

Post by LinuxBender »

whatisthiseven wrote: post #153
Retric wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fog machines also use a glycol solution, and have been shown to be harmful. Thus vaping glycol may not be safe. https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/hhe/reports/pdfs/1990-0355-2449.pd...

Here is the conclusion of that study to save a click: "Based on the results of this study, there is no evidence that theatrical "smoke," at the levels found in the theaters studied, is a cause of occupational asthma among performers. Some of the constituents of theatrical "smoke," such as the aerolized glycols and mineral oil, could have irritative or mucous membrane drying properties in some individuals. Therefore,…

What grade of glycol is used in a vape and are they required by law to state what grade it is?

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#196

Post by metamet »

lonelappde wrote: post #165
testis321 wrote: post #82

Vaping is great! Take someone who smokes two packs a day, give him a niccotine vape, and he gets all the 'high' he needs to fuel his addiciton, with (by some sources) only 10% of the "bad things" going in his lungs (compared to cigarettes). Less coughing, easier to reduce the dosage (just buy a liquid with less nicotine - you still keep your rutine and cigarette breaks, but slowly lower your addiction level). ...but.…

How is vaping better than nicotine patch, assuming that the poison is not considered a feature?

A big part that is often not talked about is the oral fixation. A lot of smokers smoke because they use it as a mental break--both day to day life at work and at home--and like having something to do idly. Feeling restless or anxious? Go have a cigarette and think about what to do next.

That physical habit is a powerful thing. Some people can replace cigarettes with vapes, but it isn't the same thing.

Same is true with patches and gum. Those can help with nicotine cravings, but they do nothing for the physical habit that many smokers really enjoy.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#197

Post by otakucode »

julianlam wrote: post #159
pavelludiq wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we should make sure that non-smokers do not take up vaping How about we let adults do as they please instead. The most anybody should ever do about vaping is warn people that maybe it's not the safest thing in the world. Instead in the EU we have a ridiculous law that makes it illegal to sell nicotine liquid in container bigger than 10ml, which means that if I don't want to spend twice what I used on cigarettes, I…

Letting adults do as they please is a common refrain, but when you're living in a country with subsidized healthcare, the government has an incentive (at the macro level) to not let you do stupid things that raise healthcare costs, which are then passed on to the population at large. In America, you break it, you buy it. Everywhere else, I have no problem with a bit of governmental oversight to make sure people don't…

That is a savagely, tragically dangerous position to take in a country with subsidized healthcare. We have many examples of unintended consequences resulting from attempted behavior modification with the goal of improving health, and government policies, due to the way they are executed, are inherently much more difficult to reverse or change than education. Just for one example, look at the American Heart Association. In the 70s, they believed they saw evidence that the amount of the diet which came from saturated fats produced increased risks to heart health. So they pursued governmental avenues to reduce the saturated fat intake of Americans by 15%. They succeeded. Saturated fat was removed from many products available on store shelves. Which made them taste like cardboard. Which made sales fall. To restore flavor, they filled the products with sugar and salt. Sales improved. Average American caloric intake skyrocketed. It birthed an obesity epidemic, a diabetes epidemic, and yes, a heart disease epidemic. Meanwhile, research showed saturated fat wasn't quite so dangerous as once thought.

Trusting people to their own devices and doing no more than education is not perfect. But it reduces the odds of unintended consequences like this drastically. It also makes it much easier to change course when necessary.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#198

Post by ChrisLTD »

umvi wrote: post #194
ChrisLTD wrote: post #187

It is darkly humorous that the US Government is freaking out over five vaping deaths, but the weekly shooting sprees have led to zero new gun restrictions at the national level.

Ironically, you call out 5 vaping deaths as being high hanging fruit implying that mass shootings are low hanging fruit. In reality, mass shootings are exactly them same (64 people have died this year from mass shootings so far). Meanwhile there's tons of real low hanging fruit with thousands and tens of thousands of lives at stake that never get any national dialogue at all because it's not outrageous, controversial…

In 2017, nearly 40,000 people died from gun violence in the United States. The mass shootings are emblematic of a larger and uniquely American problem.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/18/us/gun-deaths.html

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#199

Post by sebasmurphy »

johngrefe wrote: post #33

I had a startup in Vaping(nicotine) and am still fairly in touch with the industry. There has been no major innovation in nicotine eliquid that would cause a sudden cluster of issues. It's stayed pretty constant since 2013 with the exception of Salt Nicotine, which Pax labs has a gras study published for. The majority of cases seems to be THC carts where it can be confirmed. One case was confirmed from a dispensary i…

The CDC response seems very measured and not over the top at all. Some of this may have to do with how the news is actually reporting on the matter. For reference, here is published recommendation from the CDC website.

"While this investigation is ongoing, consider not using e-cigarette products.

If you do use e-cigarette products and you experience symptoms like those reported in this outbreak, seek medical care promptly. CDC and the FDA will continue to alert the public throughout this investigation. ..."

https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/s...

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#200

Post by chungus_khan »

qzx_pierri wrote: post #168
woodrowbarlow wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Juuls aren’t perfect, but their popularity and the losses to the tobacco industry’s profits make me wonder.... juul and marlboro are both owned by the same company.

Ah, I didn't realize that. +1 However, when you consider the shift away from tobacco products, my point still stands. Vaping is something that can be produced by small time entrepreneurs, so the power is still being taken away from big tobacco. How many people can realistically grow tobacco? How many people can start making their own vape juices? I'd say a lot - This claim is corroborated by the article, which discus…

Companies like Phillip Morris/Altria also do understand that this kind of situation is semi-temporary however. Yes, anyone can make their own, but with the combination of marketing/name recognition and economies of scale (alongside existing industry connections) they can maintain a dominant position in the market with Juul as the overall market grows and solidifies.

I'm sure they'd love to maintain the old status quo if they could, but this sort of thing is probably the right play at migrating big tobacco into the new world given that they can't.

Post reply on HN