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CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

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Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#181

Post by gamblor956 »

Reelin wrote: post #74
atlasunshrugged wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who was in the industry, what do you think about the argument of vaping being a safer alternative? I see pretty mixed things in the health community but it's tough because some of the argument seems to be that the tobacco industry has acted nefariously in the past so we can't trust any innovation in the space. Is there any known experience similar to vaping/smoking of today that has really minimal health c…

> vaping being a safer alternative A safer alternative to what? Smoking cigarettes? There's absolutely no question that it is. One is a plant product (smoke is bad to inhale) that naturally contains a number chemicals that you probably don't want to be consuming. On top of this, there are additional additives (which vary by manufacturer) that also have significant health effects. Overview ( https://en.wikipedia.org/w…

The number of people who have died within days or weeks of using a new cigarette from smoking-related causes they didn't have before the switch: 0.

The number of people who have died within days or weeks of trying a new vaping product: 5 and counting. Out of a much smaller user base.

Right now the evidence is that vaping is more dangerous in the short term, with no evidence that it is any healthier in the long term.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#182

Post by otakucode »

zelienople wrote: post #152

Several things have failed to show up in the comments that might illuminate this discussion. (1) The condition is called lipoid pneumonia, which comes from inhaling organic fats and oils. (2) The CDC reports and early studies indicate that the condition has appeared in some people who only vaped with nicotine in glycerol (which is also sometimes called glycerin or glycerine). (3) Glycerol (the Christmas molecule--HO…

Whatever the cause, it has to be something extremely subtle and very unlikely to occur. We know that from the simple numbers. Tens of millions of people vaping on an hourly basis for years amounting to ~500 cases means that whatever is occurring is a freak occurrence and not some direct consequence that has a high likelihood of occurring in typical people.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#184

Post by alexandercrohde »

teknopaul wrote: post #138
DanBC wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the question "is vaping harmful?" (because it probably is) or "is vaping about as harmful as smoking?" (because it almost certainly isn't).

Unless vaping makes you smoke more compared to cigarettes. In my experience it does. Nicoteen us crazily addictive whatever form you provide it in people will do that too much. The more convenient the more they will do it.

I don't think even this is true. The nicotine isn't really what's bad for you, it's the smoke and 600+ carcinogens in cigarette smoke.

I'd imagine it'd be safer to vape 10x than smoke 1x.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#185

Post by chungus_khan »

magna7 wrote: post #176
DanBC wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget that most of the evidence they used comes from research funded by the tobacco industry, and when you exclude that data the research shows more harm.

It's all relative. I don't see the CDC telling people to stop stuffing donuts in their mouths, which is far more harmful for public health.

I mean, they definitely are doing that:

https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/losing_weight/eating_habit...

But that kind of content very definitely grabs fewer headlines.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#186

Post by gamblor956 »

Reelin wrote: post #147
Retric wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fog machines also use a glycol solution, and have been shown to be harmful. Thus vaping glycol may not be safe. https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/hhe/reports/pdfs/1990-0355-2449.pd...

The report you linked shows quite the opposite, actually. They concluded: > Based on the results of this study, there is no evidence that theatrical "smoke," at the levels found in the theaters studied, is a cause of occupational asthma among performers. That being said, chronic exposure is probably not good for you. From a health perspective, don't inhale anything other than air!

The report he cited proved his point.

Fog machines cause noticeable effects on breathing at significantly lower exposure levels and concentrations than vaping. IOW, it provides a lower bound for the purported safety of vaping.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#188

Post by ineedasername »

robocat wrote: post #178
zelienople wrote: post #152

Several things have failed to show up in the comments that might illuminate this discussion. (1) The condition is called lipoid pneumonia, which comes from inhaling organic fats and oils. (2) The CDC reports and early studies indicate that the condition has appeared in some people who only vaped with nicotine in glycerol (which is also sometimes called glycerin or glycerine). (3) Glycerol (the Christmas molecule--HO…

> (11) If the early reports are correct that lipoid pneumonia is occurring in vapers who have only used nicotine in glycerol with no flavoring or impurities, then we must ask the question: Is glycerol being converted to fatty acids in lung cells by NAD-mediated enzymatic conversion or acid-catalyzed esterification in the presence of high CO2 levels and acidity? How about also asking another question: do some people u…

I think that needs to be weighed against the fact that it seems unlikely 1) everyone would lie and 2) they would lie regarding a health issue that has killed people, meaning they have a strong interest in doctors having accurate information so it doesn't kill them too

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#189

Post by otakucode »

teknopaul wrote: post #138
DanBC wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the question "is vaping harmful?" (because it probably is) or "is vaping about as harmful as smoking?" (because it almost certainly isn't).

Unless vaping makes you smoke more compared to cigarettes. In my experience it does. Nicoteen us crazily addictive whatever form you provide it in people will do that too much. The more convenient the more they will do it.

That has not been my experience. With a cigarette, once you start it going, you basically need to finish the whole thing in a short period of time. If you really only wanted one or two drags, sorry, you're down for 10 minutes or so of smoke. (Or you could put it out and waste it, but given how expensive cigarettes are I doubt many smokers are inclined to do that.) With vaping, you can take one drag and put it down. Figuring out the volume or amount of nicotine consumed would be very complicated. And, of course, most of the negative effects of smoking have nothing to do with nicotine and it seems if there are negative effects from vaping, those will likely also not come from the nicotine itself.

Re: CDC says stop vaping as mystery lung condition spreads

#190

Post by ad-hominem »

zaphar wrote: post #135
tdy_err wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Three are and have always been three components of e-liquid: - propylene glycol (used in ice-cream soda etc) - vegetable glycerin - food flavoring Besides proportions changing the only other variant is the type of flavoring. It's not actually too complicated. And If one of those ingredients was suddenly tainted people using vaporizers would not be the only ones affected, of course.

All three of those elements are not usually vaporized and then inhaled in large quantities. Extrapolation from their effects when ingested is unlikely to apply in these cases. Your conclusion does not follow from the evidence.

propelene glycol is and has been used as an air santizer for a very long time. https://archive.epa.gov/pesticides/reregistration/web/pdf/pr...
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