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America’s Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever (2018)

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Re: America’s Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever (2018)

#71

Post by timerol »

perl4ever wrote: post #16
Thorentis wrote: post #2

The thing I hate about buses in many cities is that they take longer than driving to get somewhere. I think if this can be changed, more people will use them. Cities like Sydney get it right, by having dedicated express lanes on many highways for buses (and taxis). When it becomes faster to catch the bus in peak hour because they can drive in lanes that bypass the gridlock, there is an incentive to leave your car at…

"The thing I hate about buses in many cities is that they take longer than driving to get somewhere." In my experience they take within a few minutes of walking somewhere, and perhaps three times as long as bicycling, never mind driving. Perhaps someone will say that this indicates my local bus system is terrible, but I don't see what could be improved about it. If they want to serve the people who actually ride the…

> stop at all the places people want to get on and off.

This is an interesting trade-off. Assuming that people get off the bus somewhat randomly, then average stop spacing should be about a quarter-mile: https://pedestrianobservations.com/2018/10/30/sometimes-bus-...

But the above assumes a nice grid. Many suburban bus routes have awkward deviations which cost time on side streets to get to an office park or similar. Fundamentally the trade-off is additional walking for some vs. additional time on the bus for all.

Re: America’s Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever (2018)

#72

Post by mattkrause »

linuxftw wrote: post #43
momokoko wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you are not aware, this type of comment is fairly common on HN when discussing public transit. > Make the bus an experience that at least doesn't make want people want to vomit and then people may start to take the bus again. Please do not take personal offense to this, but this type of comment leads me to believe that you have very derogatory views of people that have chosen or have ended up in different life pat…

In the US, government transportation is similar to government housing: you only use it if you can't afford the alternatives.

That’s manifestly untrue for New York, DC, Boston, and Chicago, etc.

Re: America’s Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever (2018)

#73

Post by inferiorhuman »

tathougies wrote: post #70
inferiorhuman wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marin to San Francisco is an interesting example because Marin Transit has next to no idea what the fuck they're doing. My experience over a few decades is that getting to/from Marin-SF on public transit typically takes 2-3 hours depending on how far away from downtown SF and 3rd/Hetherton you're going. If the delta between driving and taking the bus is only 15 minutes you either get stuck in awful traffic or live ve…

Golden gate transit and marin transit are different authorities. I like golden gate transit. The buses are the best public ones I've ever been in. Ive lived in marin and South bay and marin is way more connected to SF. Bus service runs much more consistently from and to more parts of the city than anything from South bay (if i recall correctly, some routes are 24/7) I took the 24 and yes i lived near a bus stop becau…

Golden gate transit and marin transit are different authorities.

Marin Transit contracts out to Golden Gate Transit (the bridge district), Marin Airporter, Whistlestop, and MV Transit. For many years they simply used the bridge district but that was too expensive so they've farmed many routes out to cheaper (read: non-union) companies using smaller equipment.

Bus service runs much more consistently from and to more parts of the city than anything from South bay (if i recall correctly, some routes are 24/7)

Here's a map of late night public transit service. Note that Marin is conspicuously devoid of any routes. While it will take an extraordinarily long time you can get from San Francisco to San Jose late at night on public transit. Public transit in Marin shuts down between 9pm and midnight.

https://511.org/sites/default/files/pdfs/RTC/allnighter-v10....

I took the 24 and yes i lived near a bus stop because thats what you should do when you have money (like everyone in marin) and are choosing where to live.

Most people don't and can't do this. Transit oriented development is regularly protested to a degree that SF NIMBYs would be green with envy if they saw how things worked in Marin.

Marin is by far the most livable and accessible place in all the bay area.

Based on?

You can get to all parts (including the coast and natural areas) via regular bus service and some walking which puts it lightyears ahead of South bay.

Yeah, that's definitely not true.

Re: America’s Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever (2018)

#74

Post by erik_seaberg »

mycall wrote: post #62
baroffoos wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be interesting to see if we can create self driving buses and have the driver change roles to become payment management and enforcing a safe area in the bus.

If no one is driving, it makes citizens do more of the work.. in a crowded bus, a group of normal people could throw the asshole off. Eventually, the assholes won't ride the bus.

In the current climate, an untrained unlicensed bouncer is just begging to get sued. They work under strict rules that most people don't know.

How many commuters are even armed? A shocking number of offices have begun to forbid it.

Re: America’s Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever (2018)

#75

Post by tathougies »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #73
tathougies wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Golden gate transit and marin transit are different authorities. I like golden gate transit. The buses are the best public ones I've ever been in. Ive lived in marin and South bay and marin is way more connected to SF. Bus service runs much more consistently from and to more parts of the city than anything from South bay (if i recall correctly, some routes are 24/7) I took the 24 and yes i lived near a bus stop becau…

Golden gate transit and marin transit are different authorities. Marin Transit contracts out to Golden Gate Transit (the bridge district), Marin Airporter, Whistlestop, and MV Transit. For many years they simply used the bridge district but that was too expensive so they've farmed many routes out to cheaper (read: non-union) companies using smaller equipment. Bus service runs much more consistently from and to more p…

So their use of union v non union labor is immaterial to my experience as a bus user. Golden gate transit drivers were the nicest drivers ever.

You are completely wrong about transit shutting down between 9 and midnight. The 101 route definitely has north bound buses runnjng every hour at that time (my wife and i took them regularly). This is really low effort critique on your part: http://goldengatetransit.org/schedules/updates/route_101.php

The livability claim is based on how east I found it to live in marin compared to mountain view, Palo Alto, and sunnyvale. It is a personal claim. Marin is way less stressful and overall better connected with san Francisco.

And yes, you can go from east marin to west marin via bus and you can go to mt tam via bus and you can go all the way to inverness via bus, passing through a good portion of marins natural areas.

Re: America’s Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever (2018)

#76

Post by goatinaboat »

mycall wrote: post #62
baroffoos wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would be interesting to see if we can create self driving buses and have the driver change roles to become payment management and enforcing a safe area in the bus.

If no one is driving, it makes citizens do more of the work.. in a crowded bus, a group of normal people could throw the asshole off. Eventually, the assholes won't ride the bus.

in a crowded bus, a group of normal people could throw the asshole off. Eventually, the assholes won't ride the bus.

This is not a realistic proposal. Have you ever gotten a bus?

Re: America’s Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever (2018)

#77

Post by inferiorhuman »

tathougies wrote: post #75
inferiorhuman wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Golden gate transit and marin transit are different authorities. Marin Transit contracts out to Golden Gate Transit (the bridge district), Marin Airporter, Whistlestop, and MV Transit. For many years they simply used the bridge district but that was too expensive so they've farmed many routes out to cheaper (read: non-union) companies using smaller equipment. Bus service runs much more consistently from and to more p…

So their use of union v non union labor is immaterial to my experience as a bus user. Golden gate transit drivers were the nicest drivers ever. You are completely wrong about transit shutting down between 9 and midnight. The 101 route definitely has north bound buses runnjng every hour at that time (my wife and i took them regularly). This is really low effort critique on your part: http://goldengatetransit.org/sched…

You are completely wrong about transit shutting down between 9 and midnight. The 101 route definitely has north bound buses runnjng every hour at that time (my wife and i took them regularly). This is really low effort critique on your part: http://goldengatetransit.org/schedules/updates/route_101.php

I was referencing the entire system, the 101 is a minuscule fraction of the overall service. But if you'd like to look at the timetables, the last southbound 101 leaves Santa Rosa at 9:55 PM, arriving in SF at 12:17 AM. The last northbound 101 leaves SF at 12:08 AM and arrives in Santa Rosa at 2:30 AM. So, sure, some parts of the route get service past midnight. But if you're counting on taking the 101 home from SF past midnight, good luck.

Meanwhile SamTrans, for instance, runs hourly service to San Francisco between 1–5 AM.

The livability claim is based on how east I found it to live in marin compared to mountain view, Palo Alto, and sunnyvale. It is a personal claim.

Personal claim, perhaps, but it's objectively false. During the day you've got a few different rail options to get from SF to SJ as well as regular bus service.

Meanwhile Marin sees a few routes to SF maybe twice an hour during peak hours, and a handful of ferry trips. During the weekend you're typically down to hourly service and maybe three ferry trips a day.

And yes, you can go from east marin to west marin via bus and you can go to mt tam via bus and you can go all the way to inverness via bus, passing through a good portion of marins natural areas.

Sure, if you time it right. The timetable for the 68 may as well be swiss cheese though.

Point being that there's nothing stopping Marin County from doing a good job with transit. Nothing, that is, except for a populace that would rather sit in traffic.

Re: America’s Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever (2018)

#78

Post by adrianN »

erik_seaberg wrote: post #74
mycall wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If no one is driving, it makes citizens do more of the work.. in a crowded bus, a group of normal people could throw the asshole off. Eventually, the assholes won't ride the bus.

In the current climate, an untrained unlicensed bouncer is just begging to get sued. They work under strict rules that most people don't know. How many commuters are even armed? A shocking number of offices have begun to forbid it.

In most countries you don't need to be armed to kick people off a bus. Do you suggest people throw out drunks at gunpoint? That seems really dangerous.

Re: America’s Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever (2018)

#79

Post by ctrl-j »

fyfy18 wrote: post #59
oakesm9 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of this is down to the driver being the only staff member on the bus. They should be fully focused on driving as a bus hitting anything is bad news. Stopping to kick people off just delays everyone on the bus getting where they need to go. If there was a conductor on the bus then they could deal with inappropriate behaviour, but no bus company wants to pay two members of staff when they can get away with one.

Why not rotate conductors throughout different busses? A conductor gets on at one stop, checks everyone's tickets (so they may end up covering a lot of their cost initially in fines), then get off a few stops later and catch a bus going the other way.

Every major city I've ridden mass transit in does this. They're not called conductors though, they're called transit cops. They're also still woefully ineffective.

Re: America’s Buses Need Our Love More Than Ever (2018)

#80

Post by erik_seaberg »

adrianN wrote: post #78
erik_seaberg wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the current climate, an untrained unlicensed bouncer is just begging to get sued. They work under strict rules that most people don't know. How many commuters are even armed? A shocking number of offices have begun to forbid it.

In most countries you don't need to be armed to kick people off a bus. Do you suggest people throw out drunks at gunpoint? That seems really dangerous.

To the helpless, I suggest don't poke the bear.
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