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Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

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Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#251
post #100

The biggest relevation for me about vinyl was when I realized that it's CAV (constant angular velocity) and not CLV (constant linear velocity). It means that audio quality gets progressively worse as you move from outer tracks to inner tracks!

Is that surprising? It would be a lot cheaper to make CAV players that CLV.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#252
post #94
post #71

Is anyone working on a reasonably priced turntable to play vinyl discs without degrading them? In the mid '80s, Finial Technology announced such a turntable, and had a working unit at CES in 1986. It had a stylus that contained laser interferometers that could very accurately and precisely measure the distance from the stylus to the grove walls. It kept the stylus near, but not touching, the groove, getting the audio…

I remember reading an article about somebody 3D-printing vinyls a couple of years ago. It sort-of worked but it wasn't quite there yet. Still, 3D printing technologies improves very fast nowadays so maybe in the not-so-far future it'll make more sense to just print a new vinyl from the master the current one is too badly damaged rather than spend money on a super expensive turntable? In either case I feel like it's s…

>It's easier to protect and backup digital audio samples than a fragile physical object.

A fragile physical object has more charm.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems kind of counterproductive for the (I think) vinyl target group. If I listen to vinyl, I want the kinda retro feeling "real" analog audio signal, else I'd just get a CD or online download. A mid-range stylus is completly sufficient for a great experience without any noticable noise and next to no real wear on the records.

> "real" analog Best oxymoron I've seen in a while ("analog" literally means "simulating something else")

Oxymorons aren't based on etymology, but on meaning.

The casual and dictionary meaning of analogue today, in the context of vinyl and music technologies, is the opposite of digital (and technically that which "uses a continuous physical variable like voltage to represent data") not that which is simulating something else.

So "real analogue" just means "mechanism based on the actual use of a continuous physical variable like voltage to represent data" (as opposed to a digital version of such).

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#254

By revenue, not by units sold. Still interesting, and not really surprising based on my anecdotal experience of artists I follow. Streaming audio is good enough for most sound systems commonly in use. Vinyl serves as a better collectible from a favorite artist for a few reasons. - more room for cover art - physical analog medium (superficial, but has value to some) - requires more care than CDs (proves the owner’s de…

I think the "good enough" phrase you used really touches on the reason vinyl still exists. Streaming is "good enough." But physical media is a different experience. It's more intimate. You can touch, feel, and examine the music and the packaging. Some bands (REM is one) even put Easter Eggs in their physical media that can't be reproduced by digital. Streaming is fine for when you want to fill your space with sound.…

> Physical media is for when you want to really enjoy the music

You seem to have confused me with yourself.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#255
post #204

CDs are dying, but they are mostly being killed by streaming services, not by vinyl. Digital music formats are still the king by far. The vast majority of people don't even care that their streamed music is lossy and they lose out on high frequencies that their ears can't hear and their headphones can't reproduce. Vinyl appeals to hipsters and dumb audiophiles (there are smart audiophiles, but they aren't buying viny…

I only buy vinyl because, funnily enough, it lasts. CDs scratch and become unlistenable. I’ve also had multiple name brand players crap out on me. Record players are much more reliable - and much easier to fix. Also, in my favorite genre - electronic music - artists no longer put out CDs. So I pretty much don’t have a choice.

On an automatic 'table, maybe. On a manual 'table I find the styli too easy to damage with it is mishandled or falls off the edge of a record.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#256
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is using a laser not real analog audio?

Since "real" was in quotes, I assume they're talking about the change to sound quality that is caused by the physical touching of the devices. It's not necessarily more clear or better, it's just different, and that's the point of doing something so retro. But if you aren't actually doing that thing, it loses a lot of the psychological value. It's similar in some sense to the reasons why people go to see live concert…

>It's similar in some sense to the reasons why people go to see live concerts. The sound quality isn't better, it's just different, and feels "more real", although for concerts it is also helped by the fact that you're actually there

As I don't have thousands of dollars worth of stage speakers, amplifiers and audio equipment, there's a very noticable difference in sound quality between live shows and recorded music, depending on the venue.

You're also missing out a pretty big part of live shows, there's a difference between hearing a musician play a song live vs a recording. A recording is almost never one single take straight through and, depending on the artist, can be a fairly different rendition of the song.

An example, last concert I went to was cypress hill, they had a different DJ with them that mixed their tunes up pretty differently so the performance was.nothing like listening to one of their albums.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#257

By revenue, not by units sold. Still interesting, and not really surprising based on my anecdotal experience of artists I follow. Streaming audio is good enough for most sound systems commonly in use. Vinyl serves as a better collectible from a favorite artist for a few reasons. - more room for cover art - physical analog medium (superficial, but has value to some) - requires more care than CDs (proves the owner’s de…

Yeah, vinyl has a lot of love behind it because it has "object appeal" for the reasons you cite. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's a niche thing. As are cassettes (which ALSO are making a comeback of sorts, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EbJ4ZX4RIw)

None of these physical media are remotely comparable in terms of market-share to streaming, I expect.

It's just a thing, It won't last forever.

Good turntables are expensive and, let's face it, it's a pain in the ass to queue an LP.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since "real" was in quotes, I assume they're talking about the change to sound quality that is caused by the physical touching of the devices. It's not necessarily more clear or better, it's just different, and that's the point of doing something so retro. But if you aren't actually doing that thing, it loses a lot of the psychological value. It's similar in some sense to the reasons why people go to see live concert…

> The sound quality isn't better For some bands, I'd actually disagree with that. Both what they are playing is better, and their released material is compressed to hell and back[1], which seems to be less prevalent live (though far from gone). No doubt they _could_ do that recorded (anything you can do live you can match in a studio), but they _aren't_ doing. There's also the non-musical elements - there's a differe…

In a very concrete way, the inability to apply hard-clipped brick-wall limiting and extreme compression is why vinyl often does sound better than CD - the physics of the needle-in-groove mean that there are limits to the amplitudes you can try to encode without bouncing the damn thing out.

So vinyl masters often (but not always) avoid the loudness war and have a wider dynamic range.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#259

During EE undergrad I learned about DSP, math and other theory involved in digital audio reproduction and it's clear to me that it's technically superior. There's some truly marvelous engineering behind digital audio. And the best part is that it enhances life: now playing an album isn't "a ritual", I can do it anytime without needing physical, wasteful storage for a degrading format. I'm absolutely baffled how peopl…

Its nice to have the choice, but sometimes following a "ritual" is nice. We're trained to appreciate things that we have to work hard to get.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#260
post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is using a laser not real analog audio?

I would guess (could be wrong) that the laser turntable involves some DSP and a DAC. Normal turntables have a very simple analog signal path, with the needle moving electromagnets which emit the signal.

There's no reason they would have to be digital - Laserdisc was pure analog (until later discs added digital stereo sound)
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