Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986 • Hacker News Board

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#181

Post by iamnotacrook » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 8:00 PM UTC

efdee wrote: post #34

iamnotacrook wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No it's not. If there's a digital recording of a band and you can either listen to that exact set of bits encoded losslessly, for example from a flac file from a cheap usb key, Vs whatever the hell happens when you convert those bits into analogue and press them into some plastic with demonstrably worse track separation, distortion, and which physically degrades during each play even in optimal circumstances and wher…

It depends what the digital recording is mastered for, really.

I dunno about that...I've recorded some of my acoustic guitar playing, and some electronic pieces. Some mastering exists which would make the recordings sound better than a 100% unaltered digital playback?

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#182

Post by criddell » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 8:03 PM UTC

S_A_P wrote: post #168

criddell wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Records from the mid-70s through the 80's were pretty terrible quality.

Thats an interesting take... I have a mix of original and new pressings, and typically any re-release version Ive had has numerous flaws. Even those "180 gram audiophile pressings". Heres a short list: 1) skips in the track/mastered too loudly 2) uses the CD master and not Vinyl master(anything current may just be that way because the original wasn't released on vinyl, so it sorta gets a pass) Probably the most disap…

My comment is a bit of an oversimplification.

During the oil embargo in the 1970s, US record manufacturers started to cut a lot of corners to keep their costs under control. Then when the price of oil fell, quality didn't come back very quickly.

Japanese and European imports were generally of very high quality virgin vinyl during that time and the quality in the US varied from label to label. The big labels were turning out a lot of very low quality records.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#183

Post by aibara » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 8:04 PM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #165

Aaronmacaron wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your conception of vinyl buyers is very negative. I think there's another category of people that buy vinyl. If you really love an album and want to support the artist you can purchase the vinyl version of the album. Apart from supporting the artist you often get additional treats like a nice booklet with the lyrics or additional art/imagery. I really think there's extra value in buying vinyl apart from it being hip.

If you want to buy a physical medium then CDs are the obvious option because objectively they are superior to vinyls in every aspects and they can also come with nice booklets. I think that the hip-value of vinyls is extremely important. I write that as someone who had no choice but use vinyls and tapes until I got a CD player...

CDs are just... awful. Nice booklets? You mean small booklets with tiny pictures and even tinier text. And they come in what I consider one of the most horrible containers of all time: the ugly and easily-broken jewel case.

Like vinyl, CDs can be scratched, but they sure don't degrade gracefully: the nice pops of vinyl becomes jarring skips on a CD up to the point where the CD just becomes unplayable.

Nowadays I have all my music on my computer, as files on the drive or from a stream. But when it comes to wanting something physical, something I can hold and look at (from the cover and extra material that comes with an LP to the wonderful spinning of a record as the sound emerges), vinyl easily wins.

But maybe I'm weird, because even in the mid '90s as a teenager I thought vinyl looked cool and was fun and fascinating to interact with. I hated CDs and their cases so much I even converted all my CDs to minidisc! Happily I kept them around until I ripped them to FLAC files.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#184

Post by ken » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 8:07 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #124

pmlnr wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You need a computer of some sort to decode that, whereas vinyl _is_ engraved vibrations.

Engraved vibrations that have been transformed with the RIAA curve so that they will fit. It can be played raw, but most of the bass is missing. This is what pre-amps are for.

The frequency-dependent amplification performed by RIAA eq is in fact a simple analog computer!

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#185

Post by nine_k » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 8:09 PM UTC

With CD being in decline, and vinyl on the rise, it's natural for vinyl to overcome CDs.

But I'd say it's mostly because CDs have all but disappeared from mass sales channels. E.g. this chart says a lot: https://www.statista.com/chart/12950/cd-sales-in-the-us/

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#186

Post by mnd999 » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 8:10 PM UTC

pkorzeniewski wrote: post #159

I bought a turntable from the 80s several months ago and I love it :-) I never had a turntable before so it's actually a "new" technology to me, but I find the physicality of the whole thing wonderful - choosing a record and setting up the turntable is like a ritual, you just enjoy the moment.

The novelty factor is a definitely a thing with vinyl. I'm nearly 40 and my first music (Disney etc.) was on record but we quickly moved on to tape and then CD. A lot of people not much younger than me will never have seen a record growing up.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#187

Post by iikoolpp » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 8:13 PM UTC

parsimo2010 wrote: post #151

CDs are dying, but they are mostly being killed by streaming services, not by vinyl. Digital music formats are still the king by far. The vast majority of people don't even care that their streamed music is lossy and they lose out on high frequencies that their ears can't hear and their headphones can't reproduce. Vinyl appeals to hipsters and dumb audiophiles (there are smart audiophiles, but they aren't buying viny…

As it happens, I own several freshly printed cassette tapes from the last year or two.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#188

Post by mruts » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 8:14 PM UTC

explodingcamera wrote: post #166

tzs wrote: post #71

Is anyone working on a reasonably priced turntable to play vinyl discs without degrading them? In the mid '80s, Finial Technology announced such a turntable, and had a working unit at CES in 1986. It had a stylus that contained laser interferometers that could very accurately and precisely measure the distance from the stylus to the grove walls. It kept the stylus near, but not touching, the groove, getting the audio…

This seems kind of counterproductive for the (I think) vinyl target group. If I listen to vinyl, I want the kinda retro feeling "real" analog audio signal, else I'd just get a CD or online download. A mid-range stylus is completly sufficient for a great experience without any noticable noise and next to no real wear on the records.

Why is using a laser not real analog audio?

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#189

Post by gnusty_gnurc » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 8:16 PM UTC

taylodl wrote: post #173

gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #65

During EE undergrad I learned about DSP, math and other theory involved in digital audio reproduction and it's clear to me that it's technically superior. There's some truly marvelous engineering behind digital audio. And the best part is that it enhances life: now playing an album isn't "a ritual", I can do it anytime without needing physical, wasteful storage for a degrading format. I'm absolutely baffled how peopl…

Digital formats (FLAC) are not only technically superior, but digital distribution is also greener.

As a storage format sure. Streaming at 192kbps or 320 if you really care, is more than adequate for the listening habits and ear health of most people.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#190

Post by fragsworth » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 8:22 PM UTC

mruts wrote: post #188

explodingcamera wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems kind of counterproductive for the (I think) vinyl target group. If I listen to vinyl, I want the kinda retro feeling "real" analog audio signal, else I'd just get a CD or online download. A mid-range stylus is completly sufficient for a great experience without any noticable noise and next to no real wear on the records.

Why is using a laser not real analog audio?

Since "real" was in quotes, I assume they're talking about the change to sound quality that is caused by the physical touching of the devices. It's not necessarily more clear or better, it's just different, and that's the point of doing something so retro. But if you aren't actually doing that thing, it loses a lot of the psychological value.

It's similar in some sense to the reasons why people go to see live concerts. The sound quality isn't better, it's just different, and feels "more real", although for concerts it is also helped by the fact that you're actually there.