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Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

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Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#141

Post by linuxftw »

rcoveson wrote: post #95
linuxftw wrote: post #58

Vinyl is for hipsters. Objectively inferior capability to reproduce sounds.

> Objectively inferior capability to reproduce sounds. Maybe when it comes to something like music, that's not the most important thing. In fact, most music listeners would say it's not really important at all. Vinyls have great UX. The LP format encourages you to listen to an uninterrupted, un-shuffled 23 or 46 minutes of music. Album artwork and lyrics are presented at a scale where it doesn't hurt the eyes to look…

> The LP format encourages you to listen to an uninterrupted, un-shuffled 23 or 46 minutes of music

You can do this on a CD with superior audio quality.

> Album artwork and lyrics are presented at a scale where it doesn't hurt the eyes to look at them.

There's nothing stopping someone from celling a CD in a vinyl-sized case.

> Maybe when it comes to something like music, that's not the most important thing. In fact, most music listeners would say it's not really important at all.

I'm pretty sure almost every single fan of vinyl will tell you it 'sounds better.' What they really mean is they like the typical mix of a vinyl recording, but CDs can be mixed to sound exactly like vinyl. If you want the same sound as live music, vinyl cannot compete.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#142

Post by cassettesback »

echelon wrote: post #49

As much as it pains me to say this, I think I'm a hipster. I put a lot of attention and care into my audio and vinyl setup, but now that you can find albums at Walmart, the hip factor has been sucked out of it like a vacuum. I've recently been downsizing, and this might be something that doesn't stay with me. I'll keep my signed albums, but maybe not the rest.

You could switch to cassettes, they are the new hipster format, and are at least 5 years away from Walmart.

> Discogs actually says cassettes are the fastest-growing format of the big three sold on its website — the others being CDs and vinyl.

https://www.news.com.au/entertainment/music/cassettes-and-cd...

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/feb/23/cassette-tape-...

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#143

Post by rwmj »

mikeash wrote: post #113
rwmj wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure :-) I guess by "CD" I should have said "digital format" or "digital stream". Having said that is there even a streaming service which would play an entire set of piano concertos? This thing must be 8 or more hours long. I've been listening to it in fits and starts over several weekends. Also for the doubters, here's a photo: http://oirase.annexia.org/tmp/20190908_183833.jpg As you can see I have CDs and a Squeez…

Any decent streaming service will let you build a custom playlist and play it in order, if it doesn’t already have the entire work as one “album.”

Thank you. There's an experience of owning, holding and playing a vinyl record which is quite different from clicking on a stream. It ties you to a place, forces you to pay attention at least when changing sides, has quirks, crackles and pops, and beautiful artwork you can hold in your hand while listening.

The digital stream is certainly more convenient and quite obviously available in more places. I don't say this as someone who is in any way "opposed" to digital music - I own and play a lot of it myself. In units of "minutes listened" probably much more than vinyl.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#144

Post by taylodl »

cortesoft wrote: post #120
tomc1985 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite so literally, but yes. Placing the record on the player, admiring/flipping through the album art, passing it around amongst friends, actually caring/worrying about the state of the record player, all sorts of things. Why the mocking tone?

I wasn't trying to be mocking, just more incredulous. I grew up with albums as our primary source of music, but it was always just put the record on and listen. It was purely functional, being the best way we had to listen to music. When CDs came out, it was so nice because it was easier to handle and care for. I guess it is just the strange feeling of someone describing something that was just the functional way of…

Exactly. Those of us who grew up with albums aren’t buying them now. We’re intimately familiar with the limitations of that medium. I have zero interest in going back. And this from someone who still buys a lot of music.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#145

Post by cassettesback »

tuxxy wrote: post #59
echelon wrote: post #49

As much as it pains me to say this, I think I'm a hipster. I put a lot of attention and care into my audio and vinyl setup, but now that you can find albums at Walmart, the hip factor has been sucked out of it like a vacuum. I've recently been downsizing, and this might be something that doesn't stay with me. I'll keep my signed albums, but maybe not the rest.

Don't worry. If the music you listen to is sold in vinyl format at a Walmart, then you're not hipster enough to call yourself a hipster. :P

You misunderstood parent. He is worried that the vinyl format is sold at Walmart. Nobody cares what music is on that vinyl, it's all about the format.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#146

Post by ofibrvev »

renlo wrote: post #96
tzs wrote: post #71

Is anyone working on a reasonably priced turntable to play vinyl discs without degrading them? In the mid '80s, Finial Technology announced such a turntable, and had a working unit at CES in 1986. It had a stylus that contained laser interferometers that could very accurately and precisely measure the distance from the stylus to the grove walls. It kept the stylus near, but not touching, the groove, getting the audio…

My very limited understanding after talking to someone who was interested in this stuff, is that people are concerned with quantizing of the signal, which will happen with that laser solution. I’ve heard this is why audiophiles also use magnetic tape. To be clear I heard this second hand and am not directly familiar.

Frankly there’s no saving the people concerned about quantization issues with digital vs vinyl. They clearly don’t understand the basic physics and that mechanical of PVC severely limits dynamic range such that with about 10 bits of signal and some noise you can quite comfortably transparently recreate vinyl. 16 bits is more than enough to record vinyl.

There’s no reasoning somebody out of something they weren’t reasoned into the first place, so usually this isn’t an argument worth having.

A modern laser interferometer could easily get well past the resolution that is limited by the vinyl structure itself.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#147

Post by tomc1985 »

taylodl wrote: post #144
cortesoft wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wasn't trying to be mocking, just more incredulous. I grew up with albums as our primary source of music, but it was always just put the record on and listen. It was purely functional, being the best way we had to listen to music. When CDs came out, it was so nice because it was easier to handle and care for. I guess it is just the strange feeling of someone describing something that was just the functional way of…

Exactly. Those of us who grew up with albums aren’t buying them now. We’re intimately familiar with the limitations of that medium. I have zero interest in going back. And this from someone who still buys a lot of music.

I grew up with albums (plus learned to DJ with vinyl) but I also strongly believe in physical ownership and find this rental/streaming model abhorrent. It boils down to feelings and one's relationship with their music

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#148

Post by benj111 »

rwmj wrote: post #136
benj111 wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pah, tapes are cooler than vinyl. My Dad has vinyl, plus only popular bands can justify a vinyl print run. You can release a tape album even if you can only count your fans on one hand, including the band members.

If you were a tiny band why would you release a cassette tape album instead of an MP3 or digital stream?

Because tapes are cool.

Or for a longer answer. Bands don't need to release vinyl. Fans appreciate the physicality, and will pay for it. But tiny bands probably don't have the resources for a vinyl pressing. I was also making reference to back in the day when your options were vinyl/cd or tape. If you wanted to release an album, tape was your only choice unless you were likely to sell at least X hundred units. And as I said, tapes are cool :)

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#149

Post by monocasa »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #109
monocasa wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAIC, dynamic range compression is very nearly as bad as clipping. It just curves out the signal so you don't go straight off of a cliff, but you're still trying to fit 10 lbs of potatoes into a 5 pound bag.

You don't understand it then especially with modern 24 bit and up sampling available in flacs and other standards. clipping is almost always going to be worse than dynamic compression except under the worst edge case conditions in 16 bit and above (standard CD limit)

I'm literally a engineer who does DSP, so yeah I do understand it.

24-bit doesn't tend to matter, because somewhere in the mastering pipeline will inevitably be 16-bit nine times out of ten.

And the compression they use in 16-bit to try and have their cake and eat it too has more noticeable than the issues with vinyl IMO. Yes, there's technically plenty of room in there for the signal without compression or clipping, but like I showed above there's systemic reasons why they don't use the bandwidth effectively.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#150

Post by sebastianconcpt »

With vinyl revenue growing by 12% in the second half of 2018 and first half of this year, and CD rates barely changing at all, it could see vinyl revenue overtake that of CDs by the end of the year.

If it does happen, it’ll be the first time that vinyl has generated more revenue than CDs since 1986.

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