Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986 • Hacker News Board

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#91

Post by jameshart » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 5:51 PM UTC

taxidump wrote: post #40

thinkmassive wrote: post #15

By revenue, not by units sold. Still interesting, and not really surprising based on my anecdotal experience of artists I follow. Streaming audio is good enough for most sound systems commonly in use. Vinyl serves as a better collectible from a favorite artist for a few reasons. - more room for cover art - physical analog medium (superficial, but has value to some) - requires more care than CDs (proves the owner’s de…

>physical analog medium (superficial, but has value to some) I dissagree that vinyl medium is superficial. It is different entirely. Vinyl has a unique sound. Dynamic entropy is added during the playback from imperfections, many favor this outcome, not all. Audio sources for vinyl duplication will undergo a seperate mastering process that is taylored for the vinyl version. Even if you do not request another mastering…

‘Dynamic entropy’ - you mean ‘noise’, right?

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#92

Post by cortesoft » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 5:52 PM UTC

taxidump wrote: post #40

thinkmassive wrote: post #15

By revenue, not by units sold. Still interesting, and not really surprising based on my anecdotal experience of artists I follow. Streaming audio is good enough for most sound systems commonly in use. Vinyl serves as a better collectible from a favorite artist for a few reasons. - more room for cover art - physical analog medium (superficial, but has value to some) - requires more care than CDs (proves the owner’s de…

>physical analog medium (superficial, but has value to some) I dissagree that vinyl medium is superficial. It is different entirely. Vinyl has a unique sound. Dynamic entropy is added during the playback from imperfections, many favor this outcome, not all. Audio sources for vinyl duplication will undergo a seperate mastering process that is taylored for the vinyl version. Even if you do not request another mastering…

You don't think all of those differences can be simulated digitally? I would be curious if people can't be fooled in a double blind test.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#93

Post by stjohnswarts » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

gnusty_gnurc wrote: post #65

During EE undergrad I learned about DSP, math and other theory involved in digital audio reproduction and it's clear to me that it's technically superior. There's some truly marvelous engineering behind digital audio. And the best part is that it enhances life: now playing an album isn't "a ritual", I can do it anytime without needing physical, wasteful storage for a degrading format. I'm absolutely baffled how peopl…

I agree to you mostly, but I do have some vinyls if my favorite all time albums. Maybe 50 or so. However the analog priests are wrong about superiority of vinyl both technically and philosophically. However, I do love me some 70s and 80s punk music on vinyl which makes it even a little bit dirtier and less refined

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#94

Post by simias » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #71

Is anyone working on a reasonably priced turntable to play vinyl discs without degrading them? In the mid '80s, Finial Technology announced such a turntable, and had a working unit at CES in 1986. It had a stylus that contained laser interferometers that could very accurately and precisely measure the distance from the stylus to the grove walls. It kept the stylus near, but not touching, the groove, getting the audio…

I remember reading an article about somebody 3D-printing vinyls a couple of years ago. It sort-of worked but it wasn't quite there yet. Still, 3D printing technologies improves very fast nowadays so maybe in the not-so-far future it'll make more sense to just print a new vinyl from the master the current one is too badly damaged rather than spend money on a super expensive turntable?

In either case I feel like it's somewhat missing the point of vinyls in this day and age, people like vinyls because they're simple and low-tech like audio tapes, VHS and Polaroids. If you really care about audio quality and preservation you'll be much better off building a good capture setup and digitize your vinyl. It's easier to protect and backup digital audio samples than a fragile physical object.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#95

Post by rcoveson » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

linuxftw wrote: post #58

Vinyl is for hipsters. Objectively inferior capability to reproduce sounds.

> Objectively inferior capability to reproduce sounds.

Maybe when it comes to something like music, that's not the most important thing. In fact, most music listeners would say it's not really important at all.

Vinyls have great UX. The LP format encourages you to listen to an uninterrupted, un-shuffled 23 or 46 minutes of music. Album artwork and lyrics are presented at a scale where it doesn't hurt the eyes to look at them.

Your statement reminds me of whiskey drinkers who only drink out of one type of glass which is olfactorily optimal. It totally misses the fact that our senses are so easily tricked into enjoying things more if we enjoy the hints that surround the experience. Music is better on vinyl because you spent that much longer picking out the record and placing the needle. Whiskey is better in rocks glasses because it looks cinematic. It has next to nothing to do with being "objectively inferior" or superior.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#96

Post by renlo » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 5:53 PM UTC

tzs wrote: post #71

Is anyone working on a reasonably priced turntable to play vinyl discs without degrading them? In the mid '80s, Finial Technology announced such a turntable, and had a working unit at CES in 1986. It had a stylus that contained laser interferometers that could very accurately and precisely measure the distance from the stylus to the grove walls. It kept the stylus near, but not touching, the groove, getting the audio…

My very limited understanding after talking to someone who was interested in this stuff, is that people are concerned with quantizing of the signal, which will happen with that laser solution. I’ve heard this is why audiophiles also use magnetic tape. To be clear I heard this second hand and am not directly familiar.

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#97

Post by aodin » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

oe wrote: post #27

Vinyl's growth is somewhat limited by the world's pressing capacity. Old pressing machines are being brought back online where possible: https://www.theguardian.com/music/2017/dec/10/record-demand-... [2017].

When Jack White (of the White Stripes, The Raconteurs, and more) opened Third Man Pressing in 2017, he had the first vinyl pressing machines built in over 35 years. The machines were build by NEWBILT in Germany [1].

Third Man Pressing's about page also has a great video about the process: https://thirdmanpressing.com/about

[1] https://newbilt-machinery.com

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#98

Post by tomc1985 » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

cortesoft wrote: post #90

tomc1985 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're discounting the value of physically experiencing the media you're consuming. Pretentious or not, it really is a different feeling, something that streaming can't replicate.

Physically experiencing? You mean the act of placing a record on the player, or something else? So only the person who touches the album gets the full experience?

Not quite so literally, but yes. Placing the record on the player, admiring/flipping through the album art, passing it around amongst friends, actually caring/worrying about the state of the record player, all sorts of things.

Why the mocking tone?

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#99

Post by stjohnswarts » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

Etheryte wrote: post #87

stjohnswarts wrote: post #73

Vinyl is 90% nostalgia and 10% logical. Modern recording methods are far superior and have much better fidelity. I much prefer my flacs on amodern high end system

I'm not sure whether this still holds, but for quite a long time, vinyl was a surefire way to avoid the loudness war [1] — the physical medium simply wouldn't allow for such extreme transformation and still play well. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loudness_war

Yeah but it's got a bit better over the past decade as more people realized why that certain something was missing

Re: Vinyl set to outsell CDs for first time since 1986

#100

Post by kozak » Sun, Sep 08, 2019, 5:54 PM UTC

The biggest relevation for me about vinyl was when I realized that it's CAV (constant angular velocity) and not CLV (constant linear velocity). It means that audio quality gets progressively worse as you move from outer tracks to inner tracks!