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What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

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Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#41

Post by robomartin »

The problem with climate change is that it has now solidly left the realm of the scientific to enter politics.

Here’s the truth:

We cannot do a thing about it.

This is scientific fact, not my opinion. I invite everyone to reproduce my conclusion. Here’s how to do it:

Question:

How long would it take for a 100 ppm drop in atmospheric CO2 concentration if humanity, along with all of our technology, evaporated from this planet tomorrow?

In other words, a Thanos moment. A snap of the fingers and humanity is gone in an instant.

Why this question?

Because that’s the baseline. This is important:

WE CANNOT DO BETTER THAN THIS RATE IF CHANGE.

Can we answer that question?

Yes!

We have 800,000 years of highly accurate atmospheric composition data from ice core sampling. In other words, we have a time machine that tells us exactly how the planet would behave if we were not here.

What does the data say? How does it answer my question?

50,000 to 75,000 years for a 100 ppm drop in atmospheric CO2 concentration if we evaporated from this planet.

THAT IS THE BASELINE

Any proposal for “saving the planet” has to be measured against that.

For example: Erase the US from the planet -> Save the planet in 50 years? Nope, ridiculous.

Ban all forms if internal combustion engines? Nope. Ridiculous.

Switch to 100% renewable energy at a world scale? Nope. Again, ridiculous.

All of these are ridiculous because the next question should be: How is this going to perform a THOUSAND TIMES BETTER than the Thanos scenario?

The answer, at that point, becomes beyond obvious: These ideas are ridiculous.

As for what would work, well, that’s a whole other conversation that starts with reforestation at a monumental scale.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#42

Post by swayvil »

frabbit wrote: post #38

I have heard meat-eating car-drivers push this line of thinking for at least two decades. You know the sort of person: willing to rag on the republicans or the Koch brothers for being bad, but ultimately unwilling to do anything except moan about how it is all too hard.

The billionaires choose the song, we only dance to it.

Unless you fancy a cardboard box under a viaduct.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#43

Post by gambiting »

Bombthecat wrote: post #39
adrianN wrote: post #8

The thing is, it's already too late to prevent pretty terrible effects of climate change, but it's not too late to stop it from getting even worse . Every tenth of a degree can make a world of difference. So while we will most certainly not stay below 1.5°, the difference between 2 and 3 degrees is huge, and the efforts we make today decide in what world we'll live in. Resigning to the inevitable now is a surefire re…

But would there be a difference between 5 and 6?

From what I understand no - warming by 5 degrees will cause all phytoplankton to die off and as a result we'll run out of oxygen(not immediately of course, but we inevitably will).

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#45

Post by _ph_ »

Bombthecat wrote: post #39
adrianN wrote: post #8

The thing is, it's already too late to prevent pretty terrible effects of climate change, but it's not too late to stop it from getting even worse . Every tenth of a degree can make a world of difference. So while we will most certainly not stay below 1.5°, the difference between 2 and 3 degrees is huge, and the efforts we make today decide in what world we'll live in. Resigning to the inevitable now is a surefire re…

But would there be a difference between 5 and 6?

Yes and we still have a good chance to keept it well below 5. For most technologies emitting CO2, we now have emission free replacements, so if we strongly push for using them, we do have quite a fighting chance.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#46

Post by adrianN »

jbattle wrote: post #28
ghobs91 wrote: post #23

1. Even if we can't completely prevent it, we can stop it from being much worse. 2. Regardless of the climate changer factor, polluting the air causes cancer, damages ecosystems, harms our food supply, etc. The mentality of "we can't prevent it, so why bother trying" is like accidentally shooting yourself in the foot, and when finding out it'll have to be amputated, proceeding to shoot your other foot because "what's…

Did you read the article? That's not what it's about at all. The author is saying that we aren't going to "stop" climate change. So instead we should be strategizing how to proactively invest in systems (both natural and man-made) to make them more resilient in the face of changes to come.

The best systems to proactively invest in are renewable energies and technologies that reduce our energy demand, like building insulation, heat pumps, and electric cars.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#47

Post by jbattle »

i_am_proteus wrote: post #33
jbattle wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the article? That's not what it's about at all. The author is saying that we aren't going to "stop" climate change. So instead we should be strategizing how to proactively invest in systems (both natural and man-made) to make them more resilient in the face of changes to come.

Which all conveniently line up with one major political platform. "If you frightened by the coming climate cataclysm, then you should also agree with me on everything ." It's very well-written, but it's not rational. The content is more political than scientific.

Deciding on what choices to make in response to the climate changing is inherently political. Science can inform the process but can't tell us which selection of responses is "most valid".

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#49

Post by ivalm »

reallydude wrote: post #35
ghobs91 wrote: post #23

1. Even if we can't completely prevent it, we can stop it from being much worse. 2. Regardless of the climate changer factor, polluting the air causes cancer, damages ecosystems, harms our food supply, etc. The mentality of "we can't prevent it, so why bother trying" is like accidentally shooting yourself in the foot, and when finding out it'll have to be amputated, proceeding to shoot your other foot because "what's…

The survival of our technological civilization is very much uncertain. It has been since the nuclear age. If someone wanted to take meaningful action, they would be sinking container ships. In aggregate, they contribute to more pollution (of all kinds), than most singular countries. Nobody is going to war over this, so it's inevitable. If it's inevitable, it's not healthy to pretend otherwise. The earth will survive,…

> 150 degree weather

Now that's a hyperbole.

> No water

Invest in desalination, like Israel and other rich middle eastern countries.

Re: What if we stopped pretending the climate apocalypse can be stopped?

#50

Post by adrianN »

ForHackernews wrote: post #14
adrianN wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It ensures that no meaningful action will be taken in the next years either.

How are you so sure of that? We've been trying it your way for 40 years and gotten nowhere https://www.reddit.com/r/comics/comments/c5rjs2/its_that_eas... Maybe telling everyone the truth at this late stage will produce some kind of meaningful reflection. Even it doesn't, it'll still just be the status quo.

"It's too late for meaningful action" doesn't sound like a slogan that inspires unprecendented change.
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