Live data from Hacker News

In a small trial, drugs seemed to rejuvenate the body’s ‘epigenetic clock’

nature.com

51–60 of 198 posts

Re: In a small trial, drugs seemed to rejuvenate the body’s ‘epigenetic clock’

#51

It just dawned on me that getting old and dying is most likely an evolutionary chicken and egg problem. If you didn't get old and die, evolution of your species would grind to a halt. Getting old and dying is required for evolution to transpire. I can't see any reason why it must be an absolute truth.

No, only reproduction is required. If there was still an early Hominid walking around, we wouldn't be any dumber.

The problem is that old species members generally rely on the same resources as young species members. So if you're in a resource-constrained environment, you need to clear the old out.

Re: In a small trial, drugs seemed to rejuvenate the body’s ‘epigenetic clock’

#53
post #10

The sample size is so small, that the results are nearly meaningless.

There is more to the sample size than the number 9. Every time unit before the experiment where the effects were not seen is a form of sample. For example, suppose nine old people took an unusual drug and then grew 1-3 inches over the next two years. The fact that it happened right after they took the drug, and not some other point in their life, would be one heck of a coincidence, the probability of which depends on the absolute rarity of that sort of event.

Re: In a small trial, drugs seemed to rejuvenate the body’s ‘epigenetic clock’

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistics

Plus ça change. I wouldn't have thought racism would become popular again, but here we are.

Or, well, victorian tiptoeing around language becoming popular again, to avoid saying the obvious: most rich people in our society are white...

Re: In a small trial, drugs seemed to rejuvenate the body’s ‘epigenetic clock’

#55

1) DHEA is not a diabetes med. In fact it's a steroid (not really an anabolic one, though it is a precursor to anabolics) and illegal in the EU. It is a substance which is lowered in older people, so older people supplement with it. 2) Metformin is a diabetes med, and it's used by antiaging enthusiasts independently and along with growth hormone 3) Fasting creates larger growth hormone spikes, and improves sugar clea…

> So, this (lousy, but interesting) study is basically "fasting by using drugs." That sounds to me like a big deal, given that most people find fasting difficult (and unpleasant).

Agreed. Programmatic control of the "metabolic switch" at the cellular level is kind of a Holy Grail ;)

Cellular metabolic reprogramming controls sugar appetite

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/704783v1.full

Re: In a small trial, drugs seemed to rejuvenate the body’s ‘epigenetic clock’

#56
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. You're succumbing to the fallacy of group selection. Evolution operates on a gene-specific level. A trait that maximizes an individual's inclusive genetic fitness at the expense of the species will always out-complete. Genes most definitely do not want to promote evolution in any sense. Since evolution by definition implies the replacement of currently existing genes with new genes.

Wouldn't a gene prefer to transmit copies of itself into descendants that replace all the other genes in the DNA it shares, with better fitness-maximizing ones? That is, if a gene's options are "copy into clone" or "copy into 100% optimal genetic superman, with the only common gene being me , left completely untouched", I assume any given gene would "choose" the latter. Which is to say, presuming a given gene is alre…

Yes, if a gene's surrounded by copies of itself, then there might be certain scenarios where it will destroy a copy of itself to help other copies of the same gene.

For example apoptosis happens all the time in human cells. If a cell believes it's infected by a virus or a cancerous mutation, it will voluntarily destroy itself. That's because its continued existence threatens its genetically identical cellular neighbors. Thus genetic inclusive fitness is maximized.

But what absolutely wouldn't happen is such self-sacrifice on a species wide level. Two random members of a species are not closely enough related for self-sacrifice to maximize inclusive genetic fitness. Almost certainly a non-complying free rider mutation would arise in one or more individuals, and exploit the other species' members altruism.

The hypothesis was that aging evolved as an adaptation to accelerate the evolution of the species. To see the absurdity of this hypothesis, consider that if this logic held, then mate guarding would definitely not exist. In fact just the opposite, males would routinely solicit the highest-quality males they could find to mate with their females. And be happy about it. After all this would also accelerate species wide evolution, at the expense of individual fitness.

Re: In a small trial, drugs seemed to rejuvenate the body’s ‘epigenetic clock’

#57

1) DHEA is not a diabetes med. In fact it's a steroid (not really an anabolic one, though it is a precursor to anabolics) and illegal in the EU. It is a substance which is lowered in older people, so older people supplement with it. 2) Metformin is a diabetes med, and it's used by antiaging enthusiasts independently and along with growth hormone 3) Fasting creates larger growth hormone spikes, and improves sugar clea…

> So, this (lousy, but interesting) study is basically "fasting by using drugs." That sounds to me like a big deal, given that most people find fasting difficult (and unpleasant).

Fasting is easy and fun, you just have to work up to it. You can just go from zero to not eating for a week. Building up your tolerance to it takes a bit, like anything else, but when you do it improves mental acuity, gets you a general sense of well-being and energy too.

Re: In a small trial, drugs seemed to rejuvenate the body’s ‘epigenetic clock’

#58

It just dawned on me that getting old and dying is most likely an evolutionary chicken and egg problem. If you didn't get old and die, evolution of your species would grind to a halt. Getting old and dying is required for evolution to transpire. I can't see any reason why it must be an absolute truth.

> If you didn't get old and die, evolution of your species would grind to a halt. > Getting old and dying is required for evolution to transpire. I don't think this is actually the case - only dying is required, not the getting old part. If a lion is still having no trouble catching zebras at 20, why shouldn't he stick around having kids? (The answer is probably something along the lines of "keeping this gene carrier…

> though some species do seem to manage agelessness, most intriguingly the naked mole rat

Though far more removed from us or many other things, some Jelly Fish take this even further by reverting to earlier stages of life. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turritopsis_dohrnii

Re: In a small trial, drugs seemed to rejuvenate the body’s ‘epigenetic clock’

#59

1) DHEA is not a diabetes med. In fact it's a steroid (not really an anabolic one, though it is a precursor to anabolics) and illegal in the EU. It is a substance which is lowered in older people, so older people supplement with it. 2) Metformin is a diabetes med, and it's used by antiaging enthusiasts independently and along with growth hormone 3) Fasting creates larger growth hormone spikes, and improves sugar clea…

44 yo male. DHEA is amazing. In times of stress, it restores my libido and ends my depressive cycle. I don't take it every day, but I definitely keep it close by.

Re: In a small trial, drugs seemed to rejuvenate the body’s ‘epigenetic clock’

#60
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus ça change. I wouldn't have thought racism would become popular again, but here we are.

Or, well, victorian tiptoeing around language becoming popular again, to avoid saying the obvious: most rich people in our society are white...

But the obvious doesn't need to be continually restated. Rather, it is usually stated in furtherance of some motive - contrast someone expressing frustration at the police saying "everyone in that town is white", with a loan officer saying "everyone in that town is white".

There are certainly medical reasons why race is relevant for the results of the study, but the original comment seemed to be dismissing the research as only relevant to a caricatured outgroup. And a justification of "statistics" sounds impartial, but it's from the exact same vein as "_______ people are more likely to default on loans".

Post reply on HN