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Sites with dumb password rules

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11–20 of 327 posts

Re: Sites with dumb password rules

#11
Honestly, I'm past caring about upper length limits, however stupid they are.

What really pisses me off is not validating on it, so my too-long password is happily accepted, and I have no idea what it is except that it's some prefix of the one I saved.

Re: Sites with dumb password rules

#12
It would be nice if there was a HTML standard for specifying password requirement data, like length ranges, valid/invalid characters, character type requirements(3 letters, 1 number, 1 special character), etc, so that password managers/generators could use it to always create a valid secure, valid password for you.

Re: Sites with dumb password rules

#14
Chase Bank:

Must not include more than 2 identical characters (for example: 111 or aaa)

Must not include more than 2 consecutive characters (for example: 123 or abc)

First, they apparently mean repeating and not identical characters.

But more importantly, perfectly random character strings frequently contain repeating and consecutive characters, so this rule must reduce the entropy of passwords.

------

Edit - Just simulated this for 10 million 12-character passwords randomly generated from the 90 characters Chase allows.

Turns out the repeating and consecutive rules would invalidate about 0.3% of purely random passwords.

A negligible reduction in entropy is certainly more than offset by preventing passwords like aBc123456789.

Re: Sites with dumb password rules

#15
post #12

It would be nice if there was a HTML standard for specifying password requirement data, like length ranges, valid/invalid characters, character type requirements(3 letters, 1 number, 1 special character), etc, so that password managers/generators could use it to always create a valid secure, valid password for you.

Useful idea, but I wouldn't it be exploitable by adversaries as well (eg. knowing those constraints would be helpful for generating dictionary attacks)?

Re: Sites with dumb password rules

#16
post #14

Chase Bank: Must not include more than 2 identical characters (for example: 111 or aaa) Must not include more than 2 consecutive characters (for example: 123 or abc) First, they apparently mean repeating and not identical characters. But more importantly, perfectly random character strings frequently contain repeating and consecutive characters, so this rule must reduce the entropy of passwords. ------ Edit - Just si…

doesn't any rule decrease password entropy?

Re: Sites with dumb password rules

#17
post #14

Chase Bank: Must not include more than 2 identical characters (for example: 111 or aaa) Must not include more than 2 consecutive characters (for example: 123 or abc) First, they apparently mean repeating and not identical characters. But more importantly, perfectly random character strings frequently contain repeating and consecutive characters, so this rule must reduce the entropy of passwords. ------ Edit - Just si…

doesn't any rule decrease password entropy?

Yes, but no, but yes. What I believe the original poster was hinting at and I believe you, witty little you, also understood was the rule severely inhibits the entropic nature that you would rather see.

Something like minimum characters pushes towards a more ideal entropic state for example, rather than limiting the ideal entropic state.

Re: Sites with dumb password rules

#18
post #5

You can always trust State Bank of India to pick the worst possible process and phrase. WTF is hacking characters ?

> WTF is hacking characters Basically anything a scripting programming language might use as a comment or sigil. Putting 'we are probably calling exec() on your password' into writing though is a boneheaded move.

Maybe they run a password report and someone had alert("lol"); as a password. Managment freaked out and demanded someone fix the hack.

Re: Sites with dumb password rules

#20
post #11

Honestly, I'm past caring about upper length limits, however stupid they are. What really pisses me off is not validating on it, so my too-long password is happily accepted, and I have no idea what it is except that it's some prefix of the one I saved.

Reasonable upper limits don't bother me all that much. If you're going to store a hashed password, you want to choose an expensive hash algorithm (It's been a while since I looked at this, but I don't think bcrypt is standard anymore?) and that complexity is meant to be computationally ridiculous, and probably scales with length.

Good security dictates a minimum length, and practical avoidance of your login form being a denial of service... well, that dictates a maximum length too. It can be quite long, but you generally should not allow bot makers to instruct your login handler to actually hash the entire declaration of independence, repeatedly.

(Edit: I should clarify, by "reasonable" I'm talking like, 200 character or more reasonable. These sites with 20 character maximums make me cringe. Also the computational complexity can be mitigated in other ways, like sensible rate limiting.)

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