Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money • Hacker News Board

Re: Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

#51

Post by jacquesm » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 3:05 PM UTC

SeanDav wrote: post #38

No disrespect at all to the author, but when I see advice on how to do something I always ask. "What have you done that proves that your advice works?" If this came from Paul Graham, I would probably sit up and take notice but here, meh. Still the blog is well written and the advice is worth a try if you are wired that way.

> If this came from Paul Graham, I would probably sit up and take notice but here, meh.

Right, because all wisdom in the startup scene flows from those that have made millions during the .com boom.

Really, people like Paras are running start-ups today and are making money today, not 10 years ago, and even if Paul Graham is a very smart and capable person if it came to picking someones brain about running a start-up today I'm pretty sure that there is value to be found with both parties rather than just with those that succeeded in the past.

> Still the blog is well written and the advice is worth a try if you are wired that way.

So, you disagree with yourself?

If you're running a start-up you should take your advice where ever you find it and weigh it according to the rules of applicability to your situation, no matter what the source. You can even learn a lot from failures, no point in limiting your input to just the success stories.

Re: Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

#52

Post by Maro » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 3:07 PM UTC

paraschopra wrote: post #26

Maro wrote: post #23

The article's market-first approach: * Find an industry (ideally, an old fashioned one) where people are making money * Find the single differentiator which will put your app apart in the already established industry (read or research what pain points are still not addressed by top 3 solutions) * Make a web app, market it, refine it based on feedback, monetize the app * Slowly incorporate all standard features expect…

Well there has got to be at least one "hard" part in making money, otherwise wouldn't everyone be doing the same? There is no easy way to make money or successful but it isn't impossible either. I will give you my example. When I was starting out with Wingify (Visual Website Optimizer), I had absolutely no idea or industry connections in online marketing industry. But I started reading blogs, used existing solutions,…

How long does it take? If it takes 12 months, you can try 3-4 different app ideas in that timeframe, if you're good enough.

You're comparing two different risk profiles, and I don't think one or the other is clearly better.

Re: Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

#53

Post by alexro » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 3:13 PM UTC

swombat wrote: post #12

alexro wrote: post #7

Yes, but ... we are on YC site and at least twice a year we hear about cool companies appearing out of the blue with crazy idea and some of them get acquired or start bringing profits. So, the 'cool' factor will continue to have its benefits and is a good method to actually get going initially.

I believe DHH coined the name for those: Lottery tickets. http://www.justin.tv/hackertv/b/259414909

And just ironic that right at this moment the news about FlightCaster acquisition appear higher on the HN home page :)

Re: Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

#54

Post by jonknee » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 3:19 PM UTC

Something to keep in mind in the B2B market is you can charge a lot. Do your research and find out how much time your software will save the company and price your solution closer to that than what it costs you to produce and support. You'll never get a consumer to pay $1,000/m for your web app, but if you can save a company 25 hours a month they're getting a steal.

Re: Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

#55

Post by jnovek » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 3:23 PM UTC

MicahWedemeyer wrote: post #32

Beware the fatigue that sets in with these "boring" money makers. It can be very difficult to keep your motivation high when working on something like this, especially in the beginning where you're not making money and no one takes you seriously. With a funky web app, at least your friends and family might understand it and think it's cool. Doing a startup already takes a lot of motivation. It's significantly harder…

"With a funky web app, at least your friends and family might understand it and think it's cool."

Perhaps if you're in college, or keeping up your day job. But none of my friends or family thought it was "cool" when I quit my day job after we got a little bit of traction. They thought it was something more along the lines of "completely batshit insane". As I recall, it actually made my parents cry.

The point is: it's pretty hard no matter what you're working on. Everything becomes boring after a while, and outside of the valley it's hard to find a culture where people will actually support a decision to quit your day job and work on a startup.

Re: Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

#56

Post by revorad » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 3:30 PM UTC

jnovek wrote: post #55

MicahWedemeyer wrote: post #32

Beware the fatigue that sets in with these "boring" money makers. It can be very difficult to keep your motivation high when working on something like this, especially in the beginning where you're not making money and no one takes you seriously. With a funky web app, at least your friends and family might understand it and think it's cool. Doing a startup already takes a lot of motivation. It's significantly harder…

"With a funky web app, at least your friends and family might understand it and think it's cool." Perhaps if you're in college, or keeping up your day job. But none of my friends or family thought it was "cool" when I quit my day job after we got a little bit of traction. They thought it was something more along the lines of "completely batshit insane". As I recall, it actually made my parents cry. The point is: it's…

Agreed.

I look at it this way: you can afford to do something which is just a lot of fun but not making any or lots of money, as long as you are not in debt from other people. The debt can be in the form of money (borrowing from friends or family, investors) or time (ignoring friends and family).

Re: Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

#57

Post by revorad » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 3:30 PM UTC

jnovek wrote: post #55

MicahWedemeyer wrote: post #32

Beware the fatigue that sets in with these "boring" money makers. It can be very difficult to keep your motivation high when working on something like this, especially in the beginning where you're not making money and no one takes you seriously. With a funky web app, at least your friends and family might understand it and think it's cool. Doing a startup already takes a lot of motivation. It's significantly harder…

"With a funky web app, at least your friends and family might understand it and think it's cool." Perhaps if you're in college, or keeping up your day job. But none of my friends or family thought it was "cool" when I quit my day job after we got a little bit of traction. They thought it was something more along the lines of "completely batshit insane". As I recall, it actually made my parents cry. The point is: it's…

Agreed.

I look at it this way: you can afford to do something which is just a lot of fun but not making any or lots of money, as long as you are not in debt from other people. The debt can be in the form of money (borrowing from friends or family, investors) or time (ignoring friends and family).

Re: Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

#58

Post by jdietrich » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 3:34 PM UTC

MicahWedemeyer wrote: post #32

Beware the fatigue that sets in with these "boring" money makers. It can be very difficult to keep your motivation high when working on something like this, especially in the beginning where you're not making money and no one takes you seriously. With a funky web app, at least your friends and family might understand it and think it's cool. Doing a startup already takes a lot of motivation. It's significantly harder…

The single most important anecdote I've ever heard about software is this:

In the early days of VisiCalc, Dan Bricklin travelled with his Apple II, demonstrating his software to potential customers. The response from 'computer people' was generally fairly muted - they didn't see what spreadsheets did that they couldn't already do in BASIC. People with no experience of computers assumed that computers could do damned near anything, so they weren't impressed. The response from accountants was quite different.

There was one particular instance at a trade fair, when Dan noticed a smartly dressed older gentleman paying very close attention to his demonstration. At the end of the demo, he approached Dan with a cheque already in his hand. Dan noticed that the man's hands were shaking; Although at the time an Apple II was an expensive purchase, the gentleman looked like he could comfortably afford it.

Dan asked him if he was nervous. The gentleman responded with great excitement, explaining that what he had just seen would completely transform his job. He talked about his career as an accountant, how his work had been changed by the introduction of tabulation machines and electronic calculators; He explained how this new invention would free him from countless hours of tedious calculation, allowing him to effortlessly play with numbers.

To Bricklin, VisiCalc was a clever little piece of software that paid him a good wage. To the gentleman, it was a complete transformation of what he did all day, a liberating technology, even a new lease of life. VisiCalc restored his interest in his work and made him genuinely excited to get up in the morning.

If we see functional business apps as boring, it is only through our own lack of imagination. Few of us are likely to significantly change the computing industry, but each of us has the very real opportunity to transform another industry. As software developers, we are uniquely privileged in being able to turn some small part of someone's work into play. As Steve Blank so often points out, when we look beyond our own walls and see how we could help people do things, the possibilities are limitless.

Re: Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

#59

Post by alexro » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 3:38 PM UTC

paraschopra wrote: post #26

Maro wrote: post #23

The article's market-first approach: * Find an industry (ideally, an old fashioned one) where people are making money * Find the single differentiator which will put your app apart in the already established industry (read or research what pain points are still not addressed by top 3 solutions) * Make a web app, market it, refine it based on feedback, monetize the app * Slowly incorporate all standard features expect…

Well there has got to be at least one "hard" part in making money, otherwise wouldn't everyone be doing the same? There is no easy way to make money or successful but it isn't impossible either. I will give you my example. When I was starting out with Wingify (Visual Website Optimizer), I had absolutely no idea or industry connections in online marketing industry. But I started reading blogs, used existing solutions,…

And since you personally advocate for that route have you achieved a financial success already (even in small)?

Re: Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

#60

Post by jasongullickson » Mon, Jan 10, 2011, 3:45 PM UTC

jdietrich wrote: post #58

MicahWedemeyer wrote: post #32

Beware the fatigue that sets in with these "boring" money makers. It can be very difficult to keep your motivation high when working on something like this, especially in the beginning where you're not making money and no one takes you seriously. With a funky web app, at least your friends and family might understand it and think it's cool. Doing a startup already takes a lot of motivation. It's significantly harder…

The single most important anecdote I've ever heard about software is this: In the early days of VisiCalc, Dan Bricklin travelled with his Apple II, demonstrating his software to potential customers. The response from 'computer people' was generally fairly muted - they didn't see what spreadsheets did that they couldn't already do in BASIC. People with no experience of computers assumed that computers could do damned…

This is one of the most inspiring comments I've read on HN in a long time.

When I first read the article I had the same sort of "yeah, yeah, make money at the expense of being bored, etc." response as some of the other commenters here but afte reading this a light went on.

We spend so much time banging our heads on the wall looking for ways to out-do each other in the software realm when there are people in other industries starving for the most basic of the innovation we take for granted, if we can only find a way to make it relevant.

Water water everywhere...yes I am revved up about hacking again!