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Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

paraschopra.com

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Re: Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

#41

Post by jpcx01 »

jasonlotito wrote: post #34
jpcx01 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah. pg's post fits perfectly here. Specifically the part "Don't be discouraged if what you produce initially is something other people dismiss as a toy." This is exactly what paras is doing. Dismissing apps he doesn't think can make money as toys. Why should the focus just be on making money? Saying "if your goal is to make money" is sort of strange to me anyways. Probably because my goal is not to make money, but t…

> Saying "if your goal is to make money" is sort of strange to me anyways. Probably because my goal is not to make money, but to build new and interesting things that have an impact. That's sort of the point Paras is making though. If your building a new and interesting things to have impact, but your expecting it to make money and calling it a startup, it's not OK. > Why should the focus just be on making money? He'…

I am expecting to make money. And I am calling what I do a startup. And the my goal of the startup is to build new and interesting things.

I guess thats not OK

Re: Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

#42

Post by robryan »

I prefer to look at it this way, I'm taking an area where I think the current solutions are lacking and creating a solution was gives value both in terms of time and money saved. Yes as a side effect I can charge decent money for a product which generates more money in savings and extra profit than it costs, but amount of money isn't the real motivation.

I'd much rather work on something that fits this criteria than the so called "cool" webapps.

Re: Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

#43

Post by dtby »

arnorhs wrote: post #5

I think the web app-building crowd here is divided into two groups of hackers: Those who are in it to build businesses and those who just want to create apps that people use. Everybody likes money, but there's a big group of people out there that only want people to use their apps and are not in it for the money.

there's a big group of people out there that only want people to use their apps and are not in it for the money.

It is my well considered experience that this is simply untrue.

Sooner or later even these supposed saints of usability will come to wonder "why won't people pay me for my hard work?"

Re: Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

#45

Post by ido »

jacquesm wrote: post #29
cubicle67 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you know what 99c apps have done? They've got people paying for software. Normal people. People who have probably never paid for software in their life, save for Office (probably bundled with their PC), and a few XBox games They've got used to paying 99c for apps, then they've slowly adjusted their price expectations up to the $5-10 range for iPad apps, and the advent of the Mac Store looks like helping ease prices p…

As opposed to all that open source stuff for free in the repositories, yes. But paying for software is something that has meanwhile been superseded by people paying for services , and that's where the real money is in the long run. Someone paying $10 for your software is great but not as great as someone paying $4.95 monthly for the use of a service. The difference is that if you intend to hold on to your userbase on…

   software has been sold to individuals and 
   businesses alike for decades now, the things 
   that have changed the equation here are:
   
     - download sites for PC software
     
     - open source
   
     - massive piracy
How are those (except for open source) new? Piracy has always been massive, in the past even more than it is today. Do you know anyone who actually payed for any piece of c64/atari 8-bit software?

And for a long time the first place to get software from (particularly games) were BBSs.

In these times of Steam, App Store(s) & easy on-line purchases via the likes of Paypal I expect people actually buy software a lot more often than in the 80s or 90s.

Re: Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

#46

Post by drndown2007 »

jpcx01 wrote: post #41
jasonlotito wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Saying "if your goal is to make money" is sort of strange to me anyways. Probably because my goal is not to make money, but to build new and interesting things that have an impact. That's sort of the point Paras is making though. If your building a new and interesting things to have impact, but your expecting it to make money and calling it a startup, it's not OK. > Why should the focus just be on making money? He'…

I am expecting to make money. And I am calling what I do a startup. And the my goal of the startup is to build new and interesting things. I guess thats not OK

It's OK if you have a plan for how you'll make money. If you're just building something cool, and figure, somehow..., later..., you'll make money, that's what he is saying is not OK.

DHH at 37signals would probably agree too since that's his thing -- if you can't charge from the get go, you're not building a business, you're just gambling on 'good luck' happening somewhere (ie getting bought out by Google, etc)

Re: Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

#47

Post by metageek »

swombat wrote: post #12
alexro wrote: post #7

Yes, but ... we are on YC site and at least twice a year we hear about cool companies appearing out of the blue with crazy idea and some of them get acquired or start bringing profits. So, the 'cool' factor will continue to have its benefits and is a good method to actually get going initially.

I believe DHH coined the name for those: Lottery tickets. http://www.justin.tv/hackertv/b/259414909

That goes back at least ten years. In a Doonesbury strip from about 2000, when Mike's company isn't able to make payroll, he tells his daughter everybody's working for stock options now. "Do you know what stock options are?" "Sure! They're like lottery tickets, right?" "Shh!"

Re: Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

#48

Post by jacquesm »

ido wrote: post #45
jacquesm wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As opposed to all that open source stuff for free in the repositories, yes. But paying for software is something that has meanwhile been superseded by people paying for services , and that's where the real money is in the long run. Someone paying $10 for your software is great but not as great as someone paying $4.95 monthly for the use of a service. The difference is that if you intend to hold on to your userbase on…

software has been sold to individuals and businesses alike for decades now, the things that have changed the equation here are: - download sites for PC software - open source - massive piracy How are those (except for open source) new? Piracy has always been massive, in the past even more than it is today. Do you know anyone who actually payed for any piece of c64/atari 8-bit software? And for a long time the first p…

The internet has changed the piracy game completely, copying a cassette tape or ROM was time consuming and required some skill.

Download.com and Tucows basically destroyed the shareware movement, barring a few exceptions.

The upside is that there are now many more people that are using software so the markets are much larger in potential and the area where the app stores shine are convenience.

A few clicks to download and pay for a piece of software is a massive convenience when compared to the hassle that used to be involved in buying licensed software.

Re: Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

#49

Post by middlegeek »

Making money may not be the primary goal of these apps. I for one have been working on a few things that probably will not make me money but are great experience, are teaching me a lot and hopefully will give me a little notoriety for the day I build my first money maker.

Re: Sorry, your “cool” webapp is probably not going to make money

#50

Post by axod »

cubicle67 wrote: post #22
paraschopra wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, agree with your recommendation of B2B. Going B2B instantly simplifies a lot of issues that startups face because (as you say) businesses are usually inclined to pay money for services even if it is in $100-$1000/mo range. Consumers, on the other hand, will cringe at the sight of paying $5. 99 cents apps, thanks so much for setting expectations of consumers that everything on the web should be free or sub $1 rang…

you know what 99c apps have done? They've got people paying for software. Normal people. People who have probably never paid for software in their life, save for Office (probably bundled with their PC), and a few XBox games They've got used to paying 99c for apps, then they've slowly adjusted their price expectations up to the $5-10 range for iPad apps, and the advent of the Mac Store looks like helping ease prices p…

Is there any evidence they've "got used to it"?

People got used to paying for ringtones, and then the market pretty much disappeared.

Part of me thinks the app store model is a short term fad.

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