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Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

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Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#131
post #81
post #3

Five demands, not one less. 五大訴求,缺一不可。

For comparison, the Yellow Vests movement in France obtained basically none of their demands after months of protests. Some demands were partially implemented by the government, but I can't think of any demand that has been effectively fully approved and implemented.

For comparison the yellow vest represented not even a percent of the population during the biggest event, and barely a few thousands most of the time in a country of almost 70 millions. They didn’t represent the majority at all and while Macron approval rating may seem low at just above 30% it’s still the highest rated party leader left or right wing. It’s a long going protest of a vocal minority (which doesn’t say anything about them being right or wrong, but the government cannot completely change its stance because a small minority blocks the streets and ask for it.

At their highest the HK protest had like half the population in the street.

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#133
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

each time, HK will lose a few more rights they used to have. Very likely. Sucks for HK people though :( Same story everywhere - nothing much changed after the Arab spring protests, for example. As impressive as they are, how long can Hong Kong people keep up this level of protests? Beijing can keep the pressure forever and play the long game

Hong Kong needs people in the PRC to start demanding their own representation. The CCP has might, but not enough to take on the Chinese people a second time. You can't be a people's republic if the people didn't vote for you.

Is this sarcasm? While no authoritarian government can exist with no consent of the government, the PRC has no legal vehicle for citizens to disagree with the state.

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The non-violent protest thing seems like a myth that needs to be taken out back and shot, violently. We've seen for decades what they accomplish - absolutely nothing. It reminds me of this. https://theconversation.com/the-forgotten-violence-that-help...

This NPR podcast/article argues different. "...found that major nonviolent campaigns are successful 53% of the time, while violent campaigns are successful only 26% of the time." The Protest Tipping Point (podcast): https://www.npr.org/2019/06/25/736007317/the-protest-tipping... The Magic Number Behind Protests : https://www.npr.org/sections/money/2019/06/25/735536434/the-...

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Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#135
post #74
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was in China for 3 months this year. Both rural and urban areas. People said "You will never be hungry in China" and they are right. They are enough substitutes for pork, many of them just as delicious.

> "You will never be hungry in China" Quite a bold statement, given China's recent history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Chinese_Famine

This was 60 years ago...

Nowadays China is a cornucopia of food of all sorts.

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#136
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hong Kong needs people in the PRC to start demanding their own representation. The CCP has might, but not enough to take on the Chinese people a second time. You can't be a people's republic if the people didn't vote for you.

Is this sarcasm? While no authoritarian government can exist with no consent of the government, the PRC has no legal vehicle for citizens to disagree with the state.

Huh? If we're strict, it has plenty of avenues, including courts and elections [1]. They might be nominal, but legally they do exist and operate:

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_China

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Some western countries have extradition treaties with mainland China Few, and with strict legal and political supervision [1]. The proposed law would have single-handedly smothered Hong Kong’s rule of law and stability. It was a stupid, unnecessary move pursued solely for Xi’s political concerns. > HK is formally part of the PRC Hong Kong is Chinese territory from a military perspective. Civically, legally and admi…

The list does not strike me as "few", which is by the way irrelevant to the point... As I said the devil is in the details, not the principle. HK is part of the PRC, that's what many people miss. It is granted special status within the PRC by a national law. Hence the official name "Hong Kong Special Administrative Region of the People's Republic of China". This is quite different from what, e.g. British people might…

> intended solely at annoying the Chinese government

This seems enough reason to me. Did you ever read about their antics in regards to Taiwan? They deserve everything that’s coming to them.

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that some of these demands are unrealistic and some are downright unreasonable. Full democracy is a legitimate demand but one that you need to be extremely optimistic, to say the least, to believe that the central government will agree to budge on. On the other hand, demands regarding rioting are unreasonable. There objectively has been rioting going on and no government will accept to send the message…

> On the other hand, demands regarding rioting are unreasonable How else are you supposed to fight against a dictator for life in a system that's not a democracy?

I think this example has been set by the UN time and time again now. You send them a strongly worded letter.

Re: Hong Kong leader to announce formal withdrawal of extradition bill

#140
post #55

Random: Did you know Guangzhou (Canton) was briefly capital of China back in the day? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_China_(1912%E2%80%... There's an important political figure in the history of modern China: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Yat-sen He studied medicine in HK. He lived in Hawaii for a time [1]. He had a political philosophy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Principles_of_the_People To m…

Sun Yat-sen is the father of the Republic. A revolutionary in his own right.

He has a huge mausoleum in Nanjing.

His portrait used to be where Mao's is now on Tiananmen. And his portrait is still displayed in Taiwan's parliament (the Republic of China's parliament).

It certainly helped his official standing in mainland China that he died in 1925, i.e. only soon after the Communist Party was founded and before the bulk of the civil war.

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