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We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

theguardian.com

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Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#71

Post by missosoup »

mantesso wrote: post #69
missosoup wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Primarily vegetarian diets and less driving would make mountains of difference for the world. Changing diets yes. Changing driving habits, not really. Personal use of passenger vehicles accounts for a tiny fraction of transportation related CO2 emissions. The overwhelming majority comes from cargo ships and associated logistics. A typical cargo ship will burn about 30 liters of bunker fuel (far more polluting than…

>Personal use of passenger vehicles accounts for a tiny fraction of transportation related CO2 emissions. The overwhelming majority comes from cargo ships and associated logistics. while this might represent a small fraction of the global total emissions, the CO2 (and other harmful particles) produced by cars is much more detrimental to human health since it will be concentrated in the cities and near humans live. Th…

This is correct. If we ignore catastrophic climate change, the next worst thing is being directly exposed to personal transportation pollutants - amongst which CO2 is pretty benign but there is far worse stuff.

Living next to major roads or highways significantly reduces life expectancy.

https://www.lung.org/our-initiatives/healthy-air/outdoor/air...

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#72

Post by bbddg »

coldtea wrote: post #43
CalRobert wrote: post #17

The tragic thing is that there's this idea you have to live life as an austere pioneer hippie to address this. You really don't. A world of mostly-vegetarian people living in modern, timber (for carbon sequestration) flats in mixed-use environments, using renewable electricity to power their heat pumps and AC, traveling primarily via bike, walking, and public transport, and owning less disposable crap would go a long…

> The tragic thing is that there's this idea you have to live life as an austere pioneer hippie to address this. You really don't. A world of mostly-vegetarian people living in modern, timber (for carbon sequestration) flats in mixed-use environments, using renewable electricity to power their heat pumps and AC, traveling primarily via bike, walking, and public transport, and owning less disposable crap would go a lo…

"It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of Capitalism."

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#74

Post by WalterBright »

coldtea wrote: post #44
WalterBright wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A huge amount of human endeavour is spent helping a relatively few rich people suck a bit more of the Earth before it implodes. Big industrial companies are not making products for rich people, but for the vast bulk of people.

And a huge 24/7 mechanism is used to make this vast bulk of people want, work for, and buy, those products...

I doubt more than a handful of people would trade their lives for subsistence farming, and those would likely trade back after a year or two.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#75

Post by CalRobert »

sdoering wrote: post #41
jamesb93 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even that far. Primarily vegetarian diets and less driving would make mountains of difference for the world. As someone who is fairly new to adulthood I dont really see why we work so much - there just doesn't seem like there is much to "get". There should ve a greater focus on tending our environments around us, spending money on experiences and creating art (or even just having a hobby).

Next to everyone doing things - we could also add some regulation for extremely polluting industries/companies. Like I remember that one European Cruise company's ships produced the same amount of CO2-equivalent than all European Cars combined last year (or was it the year before that?). All friggin EU cars? This is what I would call a lever. And for what? For the sake of one company making money by providing a kind…

Regulation is crucial. I worry my original comment was "you should do this". Really it's "we need to build society such that doing this is the easiest option"

When polled, people in Copenhagen don't say they ride a bike to save the planet, it's just the easiest way to get around. The city is also absolutely heavenly to walk in.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#76

Post by tempguy9999 »

missosoup wrote: post #39
jamesb93 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even that far. Primarily vegetarian diets and less driving would make mountains of difference for the world. As someone who is fairly new to adulthood I dont really see why we work so much - there just doesn't seem like there is much to "get". There should ve a greater focus on tending our environments around us, spending money on experiences and creating art (or even just having a hobby).

> Primarily vegetarian diets and less driving would make mountains of difference for the world. Changing diets yes. Changing driving habits, not really. Personal use of passenger vehicles accounts for a tiny fraction of transportation related CO2 emissions. The overwhelming majority comes from cargo ships and associated logistics. A typical cargo ship will burn about 30 liters of bunker fuel (far more polluting than…

> will burn about 30 liters of bunker fuel.. to travel 1 meter

That's either a typo or a thinko. 30 litres per metre would be 30,000 litres (a guess; 25 tons?) of bunker per kilometre.

From your own link "These mammoth engines [of the emma maersk] consume approx 16 tons of fuel per hour or 380 tons per day while at sea."

I don't have time to work it out but 30 litres per KM would be less wrong anyway.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#77

Post by pelasaco »

darepublic wrote: post #73

So what should be done? Boycott Brazilian products? Stop eating meat? Stop eating meat specifically if it comes from Brazil?

That's the wrong thing to do. First the biggest issue is in Bolivia. Second Raoni is a politician, doing his lobby. To assume that somebody has good intentions just because his origins, is wrong. Third, China is biggest consumer from Products from that region. The best thing to do wold be first to help to stop the wild fires.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#78

Post by pelasaco »

nf8nnfufuu wrote: post #45

They are right to be full of fear. Their way of living will very likely be destroyed. I doubt the rest of the world will even notice much. However, maybe to protect the Amazonas, the thing to do is to give the indigenous people guns. Who else is going to prevent deforestation? The government seems to be unwilling to protect the rain forest. The indigenous people claim they want to protect it. Give them guns!

They have guns already. How do you stop the wild fire with a gun? shooting it?

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#79

Post by CalRobert »

missosoup wrote: post #39
jamesb93 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even that far. Primarily vegetarian diets and less driving would make mountains of difference for the world. As someone who is fairly new to adulthood I dont really see why we work so much - there just doesn't seem like there is much to "get". There should ve a greater focus on tending our environments around us, spending money on experiences and creating art (or even just having a hobby).

> Primarily vegetarian diets and less driving would make mountains of difference for the world. Changing diets yes. Changing driving habits, not really. Personal use of passenger vehicles accounts for a tiny fraction of transportation related CO2 emissions. The overwhelming majority comes from cargo ships and associated logistics. A typical cargo ship will burn about 30 liters of bunker fuel (far more polluting than…

True, shipping is absolutely filthy. This was a big part of why I mentioned "less disposable crap".

Though how much is ghg and how much a matter of particulates? Seems most analysis shows the drive to the grocery store emits more carbon than shipping the fish.

Also fish is generally a disaster, but that's a separate topic. (Eating carnivores full of plastic dumping concentrated waste and disease in to the ocean is suboptimal)

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#80

Post by morsch »

missosoup wrote: post #39
jamesb93 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even that far. Primarily vegetarian diets and less driving would make mountains of difference for the world. As someone who is fairly new to adulthood I dont really see why we work so much - there just doesn't seem like there is much to "get". There should ve a greater focus on tending our environments around us, spending money on experiences and creating art (or even just having a hobby).

> Primarily vegetarian diets and less driving would make mountains of difference for the world. Changing diets yes. Changing driving habits, not really. Personal use of passenger vehicles accounts for a tiny fraction of transportation related CO2 emissions. The overwhelming majority comes from cargo ships and associated logistics. A typical cargo ship will burn about 30 liters of bunker fuel (far more polluting than…

In 2010, road transport accounted for 72% of all transport sector related emissions, internation and coastal shipping accounted for about 9%.

Source: Figure 8.1, IPCC 5th Assessment Report, https://www.ipcc.ch/site/assets/uploads/2018/02/ipcc_wg3_ar5...

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