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We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

theguardian.com

21–30 of 168 posts

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#21
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure the Guardian editor is reading you commnent either, so why are you posting? The answer is that articles like this may inform other influencers. Such as those who consume Brazilian products.

I am not trying to change the behaviour of the Guardian, merely pointing at its virtu signalling.

Does "Virtue signalling" count as alt-right dog whistle? It should, based on usage.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#22

Reading this from Eastern Europe the "you" in: "You destroy our lands" "that common enemy is you" "We call on you to stop what you are doing" "When your money comes into our communities" etc sound very wrong. I imagine it also sounds weird for people in America who have no connections with what happens in the Amazon.

I am always a bit baffled when, after decades of living in a globalized economy, people who are part of advanced economies claim they have no connections to events, driven by economics, occurring on the other side of the world. If you eat meat regularly, you are connected to Brazil's deforestation, either for cattle or for soy feed. If you have invested in the stock market, you are most likely connected to the intern…

You make a lot of assumptions how meat is grown in Europe.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#23

Reading this from Eastern Europe the "you" in: "You destroy our lands" "that common enemy is you" "We call on you to stop what you are doing" "When your money comes into our communities" etc sound very wrong. I imagine it also sounds weird for people in America who have no connections with what happens in the Amazon.

I am always a bit baffled when, after decades of living in a globalized economy, people who are part of advanced economies claim they have no connections to events, driven by economics, occurring on the other side of the world. If you eat meat regularly, you are connected to Brazil's deforestation, either for cattle or for soy feed. If you have invested in the stock market, you are most likely connected to the intern…

That reasoning is problematic, as it amounts to reviving the concept of "original sin" to apply it to anyone who happens to live in a developed economy. By throwing blanket statements such as that, it is discouraging even the small changes that may help (for we are all "sinners" regardless), and diffuses responsibility from those who truly could make an impact.

I believe a lot of hand-wringing on these topics comes from positions of economic privilege, usually in the richer end of developed economies. I see little awareness of the lifestyles of individuals of mid-to-lower socio-economic status in the developed world, how little their share of impact is compared to those of the middle and upper class, and how little room of manoeuvrer they may have to make a difference even if they had the time and energy to.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#24
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure the Guardian editor is reading you commnent either, so why are you posting? The answer is that articles like this may inform other influencers. Such as those who consume Brazilian products.

I am not trying to change the behaviour of the Guardian, merely pointing at its virtu signalling.

The Guardian is giving a voice to people who are at a disadvantage. This is not virtue signaling, this article is written by an indigenous brazilian... they don't have the money to buy ad space like e.g. the brazilian farmer lobby has.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#25

The tragic thing is that there's this idea you have to live life as an austere pioneer hippie to address this. You really don't. A world of mostly-vegetarian people living in modern, timber (for carbon sequestration) flats in mixed-use environments, using renewable electricity to power their heat pumps and AC, traveling primarily via bike, walking, and public transport, and owning less disposable crap would go a long…

Not even that far. Primarily vegetarian diets and less driving would make mountains of difference for the world. As someone who is fairly new to adulthood I dont really see why we work so much - there just doesn't seem like there is much to "get". There should ve a greater focus on tending our environments around us, spending money on experiences and creating art (or even just having a hobby).

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#26
post #9

Reading this from Eastern Europe the "you" in: "You destroy our lands" "that common enemy is you" "We call on you to stop what you are doing" "When your money comes into our communities" etc sound very wrong. I imagine it also sounds weird for people in America who have no connections with what happens in the Amazon.

Eastern Europe is way past the point of consuming ressources that can be renewed. Europe as a whole is also currently signing a trade deal with south american countries, and eastern europe is going to benefit from it. From an eastern european point of view, it is easy to focus on western europe and see oneself as disadvantaged, but if you count ressources consumed the picture is very different.

Eastern Europe has similar problems , in Romania, huge areas have been deforestet by german or austrian bussinesses with no consideration whatsoever. A big part of the problem is local corruption and a blind eye to all that comes from the west

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#27

we gotta stop using palm oil, that's gonna be a challenge but I'm more conscious now on product that contain it and try to do my part from where I'm at cause for sure if be volunteering to fight the fire if I was there.

I would recommend reading this article by The Guardian on palm oil: https://www.theguardian.com/news/2019/feb/19/palm-oil-ingred... (It is also available in podcast form)

From the article:

> Most importantly, it gives the highest yield per acre of any oilseed crop – almost five times as much oil per acre as rapeseed, almost six times as much as sunflower and more than eight times as much as soybeans. Boycotts of palm oil will only lead to its replacement by other crops needing far more farmland and likely more deforestation.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#28

The tragic thing is that there's this idea you have to live life as an austere pioneer hippie to address this. You really don't. A world of mostly-vegetarian people living in modern, timber (for carbon sequestration) flats in mixed-use environments, using renewable electricity to power their heat pumps and AC, traveling primarily via bike, walking, and public transport, and owning less disposable crap would go a long…

No

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#29

The tragic thing is that there's this idea you have to live life as an austere pioneer hippie to address this. You really don't. A world of mostly-vegetarian people living in modern, timber (for carbon sequestration) flats in mixed-use environments, using renewable electricity to power their heat pumps and AC, traveling primarily via bike, walking, and public transport, and owning less disposable crap would go a long…

Not even that far. Primarily vegetarian diets and less driving would make mountains of difference for the world. As someone who is fairly new to adulthood I dont really see why we work so much - there just doesn't seem like there is much to "get". There should ve a greater focus on tending our environments around us, spending money on experiences and creating art (or even just having a hobby).

Yes, but like parent said, we're starved of time. I would love to bike or take public transport to work but that's over an hour of commute vs 20-25 minutes by car and I don't live in the middle of nowhere but in a medium sized European city.

The problem is the employers who move to the sticks, far away from the cties, where office space is cheapest and assume their workers can afford cars and should commute. Not only that but they actively fight against remote work saying it destroys team effort.

One huge step in the right direction would be governments incentivizing employers to accept remote work for office workers who's jobs are 100% digital. This way we won't all be clogging the streets at rush hour making commutes easier on those who have to drive.

Heck, one friend of mine broke his leg skiing and his company, instead of allowing him to work remote, prefered to pay his taxi fares to and from work for 2 months saying WE DON'T DO REMOTE!. And the company is a top EV supplier that loves to boast how green they're making the world. You can't make this stuff up.

Re: We, the peoples of the Amazon, are full of fear. Soon you will be too

#30
post #21
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not trying to change the behaviour of the Guardian, merely pointing at its virtu signalling.

Does "Virtue signalling" count as alt-right dog whistle? It should, based on usage.

Dog-whistle? No, but I agree with the implicit point that the use of the phrase “virtue signalling” as an insult is itself virtue signalling, specifically signalling a dislike of things generally associated with the American left.
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