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Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

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Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Next step, Chinese intelligence hacks their database of verified phone numbers. Anonymity over. Having the resources of a nation state, they could probably do it easily.

Or join as a malicious node. There is no panacea without control over some infrastructure.

For something as low latency as messaging, you can probably use proof of work for DoS resistance

Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#112
post #87
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This burner phone and your "real" phone are going to be easy to correlate retroactively based on the towers they are both hitting

this is why you remove the battery of the burner until you use it. remove the battery and sim of your compromised phone relocate yourself install sim and battery of your burner

This still creates a detectable pattern.

If the legit phone goes off while the burner is on that's a pattern. If the legit phone goes off and (travel time / distance) elapses before burner appears (travel time / distance) away from the last legit ping that's a pattern. If the legit phone and burner phone hit the same towers at the same time more than 3 times that's a pattern. If the burner phone spends most of the time off (battery out, faraday cage etc) then the times it does connect are even stronger signals.

You need to generate a ton of "noise" data where both phones are hitting different towers at the same time on a constant basis; and never being together. Maybe mailing the burner phone on a regular basis between isolated locations that the real phone never goes to?

Cell tower data is incredibly powerful for tracking people.

Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#113
post #109

No closed source mesh networking can be secure. However good user experience it has. They are no different than using WhatsApp. Indeed in that respect at least Signal is better. I am not sure why protestors did not adopt the open source serval mesh project apk and ios app. [1] In Hong Kong given the density of building it's bit hard to have a line of sight, so it will still be hard to build a local network. But it's…

Because Serval isn't in the App Store yet?

I believe that's the point. You need to download the APK or whatever IOS provides for developer packages. This means less tracking from the vendor (Google, Apple)

Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#114
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Serval isn't in the App Store yet?

I believe that's the point. You need to download the APK or whatever IOS provides for developer packages. This means less tracking from the vendor (Google, Apple)

There is no way to install apps on ios outside the appstore.

Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#115

I just tried the app via the US App Store and it requires you to verify through SMS before use. This means that it’s neither anonymous nor fit for use in a disaster zone. Good example of software that would be better if open source.

Next step, Chinese intelligence hacks their database of verified phone numbers. Anonymity over. Having the resources of a nation state, they could probably do it easily.

chinese intelligence has already intercepted all sms coming from the app and has all the users phone numbers

Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#116
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently you need to fail verification a few times before it'll present the option. I kept giving it bogus phone numbers and eventually a "skip" button appeared.

I wouldn't trust an app where the first thing you have to do is navigate dark patterns.

It's likely because of those dark patterns that they can use it in the first place given how walled garden app stores treat apps that do allow for actual anonymous or distributed messaging systems.

Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe that's the point. You need to download the APK or whatever IOS provides for developer packages. This means less tracking from the vendor (Google, Apple)

There is no way to install apps on ios outside the appstore.

Xcode is able to dynamically generate a development provisioning profile, even if you do not have a (paid) developer account. So side-loading is definitely possible, in some respects.

Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#118
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Serval isn't in the App Store yet?

I believe that's the point. You need to download the APK or whatever IOS provides for developer packages. This means less tracking from the vendor (Google, Apple)

1) It doesn't seem to be a principled decision to stay out of the App Store on the part of Serval's author, who says "trying to get the app approved for release on the Apple App Store. But that will be an adventure for another day."

https://servalpaul.blogspot.com/2018/11/serval-chat-ios-port...

2) This wasn't planned out months in advance. This is a protest that is organically sprouting up. Nobody wants to add jailbreaking or xCode to the onboarding process for people to join a protest movement.

3) I think worrying about Apple tracking what apps you install is the least of anyone's problems there at the moment.

Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#119

No closed source mesh networking can be secure. However good user experience it has. They are no different than using WhatsApp. Indeed in that respect at least Signal is better. I am not sure why protestors did not adopt the open source serval mesh project apk and ios app. [1] In Hong Kong given the density of building it's bit hard to have a line of sight, so it will still be hard to build a local network. But it's…

That website is.. something

The background makes it kinda hard to read

Re: Hong Kong protestors using Bridgefy's Bluetooth-based mesh network messaging app

#120
post #51

To be fair, China doesn't block access to any websites in Hong Kong. In a sense, it's a freer internet than in the US (zero sites blocked, plus piracy is allowed).

At this moment. There was a piece posted to HN last week that Hong Kong's ISPs have been asked, or fear being asked, to implement a firewall similar to China's. Hong Kong's ISP association published a public letter of protest about it. Edit: Found it - https://www.hkispa.org.hk/139-urgent-statement-of-hkispa-on-...

That’s not entirely true. Their response came after a lot of outrage and fear by the general population.

This outrage came after some top pro-Beijing politicians said that declaring an emergency situation is still on the table, by doing so, it would allow the government to block certain internet services.

Pro-Beijing politicians always use harsh language. The same way PLA officers hinted that the PLA could be deployed in HK if requested by the government.

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