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The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

newyorker.com

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Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#71
post #60
post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In California's Bay Area there are people sleeping under bridges a few steps from houses that cost millions of dollars.

So burn the houses and make everyone homeless.

Or couldn't we just dismantle the protectionist regime we've erected to enrich incumbent landowners?

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also raise taxes on investment income and implement a land value tax.

I like the idea of progressive property tax rates. Figure out the median property value, make the first 50% of that tax free. Then the next 50% is taxed at the previous rates. Then tax values above that enough to make up for it. Could apply the same idea to land value taxes too.

The problem with property taxes as they are usually implemented is that they put a very high burden on farmers and are often passed on directly to renters by their landlords.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also raise taxes on investment income and implement a land value tax.

I like the idea of progressive property tax rates. Figure out the median property value, make the first 50% of that tax free. Then the next 50% is taxed at the previous rates. Then tax values above that enough to make up for it. Could apply the same idea to land value taxes too.

To have a progressive property tax schedule, don't you need the progressive scale to apply to the whole portfolio of holdings? It doesn't make sense to me for it to be applied per-property as this just creates a loophole to sub-divide property titles. Why should one person be taxed less to own many small properties than someone owning a single large property of the same total value?

And if so, how does this get applied to corporations and REITs? Do they get taxed out of existence, or do their holdings get apportioned to individual shareholders and included in their personal portfolio, so that individual progressive schedules are applied to each portion?

It seems unlikely to me that you can construct a sound set of rules for this that are workable (no glaring loopholes) and appreciably different from a progressive wealth tax, which might be much easier to formulate...

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#74
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The argument against that would be that you can give your kid a luxurious cushion, you just don't get to give him 1000x what the average person would need. Keeping your kid safe from pretty much anything you went through doesn't require 80 billion dollars.

Why not? This seems arbitrary. If I earned it, I should be able to do whatever I want with it.

I don't really understand why the commentors are just contradicting your statement with philosophical notions of ownership.

I think your comment is more about the right to self-determination and touches on the topic of what wealth itself means (i.e., having a good education is of value; whether it cost a lot of money or not).

I guess one should not take HN comments too personally or seriously...

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#75
post #43

The problem with inheritance taxes, property taxes, etc. is that they erode the meaning of ownership and permanence. For example, if I as a parent want to save up and give up my immediate gratification from spending that money so my children have a head start or even a luxurious cushion, what’s wrong with that? That’s me spending my utility the way I want. With property taxes, ownership turns into renting - you never…

Ownership is a human invention. You can't take it with you, you're only ever really leasing it, and to the degree that you distribute it, what you're actually exercising is power to get other people do what you want (or delegating that power). Ownership will exist for as long as there's support in governance and law for it. If ownership doesn't deliver enough benefit for the majority in society, then expect society t…

Seems like a problem humanity has been struggling with for millennia the way we’ve taken to burying people with their prized objects and riches.

What’s more, in many cases—like Egyptian pharaohs—the wealth was only inherited and not earned by way of creating anything except through maybe war and conquest.

The difference in perspective seems fundamental. Wonder if there’s been more vigorous research on the subject.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#76

The article mentions globalization but doesn't view inequality through a global lens. If you look only within rich nations, yes inequality has increased, because the poor and blue collar middle class have lost a lot of jobs to poorer countries. But that phenomenon is actually reducing inequality as measured from a global view. The biggest issue I have with the article is that it ignores the geopolitical trends that w…

>If you look only within rich nations, yes inequality has increased, because the poor and blue collar middle class have lost a lot of jobs to poorer countries. But that phenomenon is actually reducing inequality as measured from a global view. How is that reducing inequality worldwide situation? Those foreign workers may be closer to the middle classes in rich nations, but the rich are getting further ahead

It's reducing inequality by volume, as in the bottom 20-50th%iles are seeing their incomes rise closer to the 50-90%ile incomes. But yes the super rich are getting richer than ever before

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#77

As much as in theory inheritance tax is a solution for the problem, I don't think in practice it works well. The ultra rich will always have avenues to escape tax. The middle class instead, trying to secure a better future for the family, will get hit the hardest. I am conflicted about this way of trying to solve the problem. Also, this is assuming the tax money gets used efficiently and not to the advantage of the t…

The inevitability of people trying to beat the system isn't a reason to abandon the principle.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#78
I watched an interesting interview with a billionaire a while ago, who said that after you reach a given net worth it actually becomes very hard (unless you're unlucky) to significantly diminish your wealth through consumption, and that in fact consuming more goods often just increases your net worth: Luxury cars, apartments, mansions, real estate, parks, yachts or resources like gold often appreciate in value with time (at least they did for the last 60 years), so the more of your money you spend on these goods, the richer you'll become. The words that the interviewee used were "if you're rich you can't destroy money by consumption", which is of course not 100 % true, but explains really well why the rich are getting richer.

In addition, many countries have much lower taxes on capital gains compared to other types of income, which is another factor that favors further concentration of money with those people that already have a lot of money.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#79
post #69

The article mentions globalization but doesn't view inequality through a global lens. If you look only within rich nations, yes inequality has increased, because the poor and blue collar middle class have lost a lot of jobs to poorer countries. But that phenomenon is actually reducing inequality as measured from a global view. The biggest issue I have with the article is that it ignores the geopolitical trends that w…

So it's OK to fuck over a large portion of your own population because it's trickling down to a poor country? The issue is that nations have a duty to their own citizens, good luck telling an entire generation that they need to make sacrifices for others while the rich keep getting richer.

Hence the rise of populism over the last half decade. “Let then eat cake” isn’t a strategy.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#80

As much as in theory inheritance tax is a solution for the problem, I don't think in practice it works well. The ultra rich will always have avenues to escape tax. The middle class instead, trying to secure a better future for the family, will get hit the hardest. I am conflicted about this way of trying to solve the problem. Also, this is assuming the tax money gets used efficiently and not to the advantage of the t…

> As much as in theory inheritance tax is a solution for the problem, I don't think in practice it works well. The ultra rich will always have avenues to escape tax. The middle class instead, trying to secure a better future for the family, will get hit the hardest.

The middle class is not subject to Federal Estate taxes. The exemptions are $11MM and $22MM if the estate first passed to a spouse. Neither of those are middle class amounts of wealth.

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