The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever • Hacker News Board

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#61

Post by squirrelicus » Sun, Sep 01, 2019, 5:56 PM UTC

billions wrote: post #49

Is the Hacker News community open to alternative viewpoints on this subject? It would be informative to read a wide spectrum of opinions, like we get for things like microprocessor design and code libraries.

Generally you get downvoted for doing so, but people still try to argue. I have a lot to say on the subject, but one thing I still need an argument for is why inequality is bad intrinsically. I'd love to hear a cogent argument that addresses that fundamental point, but what I end up seeing in the wild is camps of people who think inequality is some intrinsic evil, and those that don't think it's relevant to anything.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#62

Post by DoreenMichele » Sun, Sep 01, 2019, 5:56 PM UTC

quietthrow wrote: post #25

I see people throwing ideas and most of these ideas rely on politicians and/or govt doing something. Is there a non govt or non politician dependent way of solving inequality? facebook connected the world not govt or politicians. Google made knowledge and information available to the whole world not a politician or a govt. (I understand there are down sides to these companies products but so is there to govts/politic…

Is there a non govt or non politician dependent way of solving inequality?

My background is as a homeschooling mom of twice exceptional kids. I'm also twice exceptional.

I think the rise in inequality is partly due to higher survival rates of people with, for example, incurable genetic disorders and other serious problems. We also have a lot of people surviving serious health crises that would have simply killed them in a previous era, but it means they are now permanently impaired and less productive.

Personal handicaps are a significant risk factor for homelessness. Being homeless typically means you are among the poorest of the poor, so it works well as a proxy for factors impacting extreme inequality.

I run a number of websites trying to address such issues. I'm also involved to done degree with local non profits.

I think it can be done, but, like anything, "ideas are cheap, implementation is hard." (Or whatever that saying is on HN about how ideas alone don't make for successful startups.)

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#63

Post by 55873445216111 » Sun, Sep 01, 2019, 5:56 PM UTC

opportune wrote: post #9

The article mentions globalization but doesn't view inequality through a global lens. If you look only within rich nations, yes inequality has increased, because the poor and blue collar middle class have lost a lot of jobs to poorer countries. But that phenomenon is actually reducing inequality as measured from a global view. The biggest issue I have with the article is that it ignores the geopolitical trends that w…

"If you look only within rich nations, yes inequality has increased, because the poor and blue collar middle class have lost a lot of jobs to poorer countries. But that phenomenon is actually reducing inequality as measured from a global view."

Exactly, this phenomenon is called the "Elephant Curve": https://www.brookings.edu/research/whats-happening-to-the-wo...

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#64

Post by tempsy » Sun, Sep 01, 2019, 5:56 PM UTC

This is a bit dark but at a certain point I do think we’ll see assassination attempts on billionaires (not politicians) for simply being billionaires. It does feel like we’re at a point where the social fabric of rich nations is ripping due to rising wealth inequality and at a certain point the bottom will have had enough.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#65

Post by gridlockd » Sun, Sep 01, 2019, 5:57 PM UTC

meshr wrote: post #21

You can "print" unlimited amount of money but Earth resources are limited, moreover its usage is overshot (Earth Overshoot Day is 29 July 2019). So the problem is how the money is spent. We should tax money that spent to decrease Overshoot Day.

Earth's resources are limited over a given timespan, but most of these resources are not exhaustible, particularly not hydrocarbons.

Given that all human populations that have reached a certain standard of living so far have ceased to grow beyond replacement levels, overpopulation is likely not going to be a long-term concern either.

It is therefore not a problem to overshoot for a while, assuming that we eventually reach a level of technology that lets us maintain our standard of living in a sustainable fashion.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#66

Post by ceejayoz » Sun, Sep 01, 2019, 5:57 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #29

quietthrow wrote: post #25

I see people throwing ideas and most of these ideas rely on politicians and/or govt doing something. Is there a non govt or non politician dependent way of solving inequality? facebook connected the world not govt or politicians. Google made knowledge and information available to the whole world not a politician or a govt. (I understand there are down sides to these companies products but so is there to govts/politic…

A political solution that doesn’t involve politicians or the government will just create its own politicians and government to sustain it. Look what happened during the American and French revolutions, or the Russian revolution. It always starts out as “we don’t need that” and in the end you simply recreate that.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#67

Post by throwawaysea » Sun, Sep 01, 2019, 5:57 PM UTC

barrkel wrote: post #56

throwawaysea wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's because we gave their riches to them. This seems disconnected from reality. It is more accurate to say that they earned it through voluntary two party transactions.

You're dying of cancer. How much will you pay doctors / drug company to keep you alive? Is the transaction voluntary? Think carefully what voluntary means. Many, if not most, people, in their daily lives, don't have much volition.

I don’t think the second bit follows from the first. You’ve cherry picked an example of tough circumstances that most people don’t face.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#68

Post by closeparen » Sun, Sep 01, 2019, 5:58 PM UTC

opportune wrote: post #9

The article mentions globalization but doesn't view inequality through a global lens. If you look only within rich nations, yes inequality has increased, because the poor and blue collar middle class have lost a lot of jobs to poorer countries. But that phenomenon is actually reducing inequality as measured from a global view. The biggest issue I have with the article is that it ignores the geopolitical trends that w…

Exactly who had to get killed for Social Security to be passed?

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#69

Post by Mikeb85 » Sun, Sep 01, 2019, 5:58 PM UTC

opportune wrote: post #9

The article mentions globalization but doesn't view inequality through a global lens. If you look only within rich nations, yes inequality has increased, because the poor and blue collar middle class have lost a lot of jobs to poorer countries. But that phenomenon is actually reducing inequality as measured from a global view. The biggest issue I have with the article is that it ignores the geopolitical trends that w…

So it's OK to fuck over a large portion of your own population because it's trickling down to a poor country?

The issue is that nations have a duty to their own citizens, good luck telling an entire generation that they need to make sacrifices for others while the rich keep getting richer.

Re: The Rich Can't Get Richer Forever

#70

Post by boomboomsubban » Sun, Sep 01, 2019, 5:58 PM UTC

opportune wrote: post #9

The article mentions globalization but doesn't view inequality through a global lens. If you look only within rich nations, yes inequality has increased, because the poor and blue collar middle class have lost a lot of jobs to poorer countries. But that phenomenon is actually reducing inequality as measured from a global view. The biggest issue I have with the article is that it ignores the geopolitical trends that w…

>If you look only within rich nations, yes inequality has increased, because the poor and blue collar middle class have lost a lot of jobs to poorer countries. But that phenomenon is actually reducing inequality as measured from a global view.

How is that reducing inequality worldwide situation? Those foreign workers may be closer to the middle classes in rich nations, but the rich are getting further ahead