Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card • Hacker News Board

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#51

Post by jonknee » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 7:54 PM UTC

Godel_unicode wrote: post #40

jonknee wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is intentional, I'm just saying it's ridiculous. the Google way is to treat everything like a programming problem. That works decently well for bits, but really breaks down when working with humans.

The thing is that it doesn't break down except in the extreme cases, and even then it's often less bad than the edge cases with traditional human-mediated customer service. Consider the Wells Fargo accounts snafu, or the Comcast customer nickname issue. Or PayPal just in general. Is Google actually worse, or are they the kind of better that makes their rarer screwups seem worse. Consider in your evaluation just how m…

Extreme cases like using a popular new credit card to pay? Please. Google uses an algorithm to ban people for life without recourse, it's insane. Not everything can be reduced to an algo, sometimes you need to make exceptions. It can even make your algo better (thousands of people are going to try using their new Apple cards in the coming weeks).

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#52

Post by jbarberu » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 7:55 PM UTC

skykooler wrote: post #22

alanfranz wrote: post #13

Beyond the fact that I don't understand why a virtual card should be a problem, I think that this era of "we can deny you a service and tell you nothing" should stop. It's one of the biggest issues of the modern internet. I understand that laws are different around the world. In Italy, whatever is defined as a "public exercise" - anything offering its services to the anybody, be it a shop, a store, a cafè, a restaura…

There's rules about discrimination for specific reasons: you can't discriminate based on age, race, gender, etc. "Which credit card" you use isn't one of those categories, so it's legal to discriminate based on it. (And is often done, though not to this extent; many places, for example, will accept Visa and Mastercard but not Discover.)

But most places won't shun you if you merely try to use the wrong card. Imaging bringing out your Amex and being escorted off the premises and permanently banned.

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#53

Post by nodesocket » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 7:55 PM UTC

scblock wrote: post #3

Wait, so Google once again proves how much they suck at customer service, and the conclusion is to be wary of Apple Card? That seems like a stretch.

Seriously, the problem is not with Apple and virtual card numbers (which is awesome) but Google and their piss-poor customer service and lack of support for even paying users. Can't wait until the justice department drops the hammer on Google.

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#54

Post by jbarberu » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 7:57 PM UTC

slenk wrote: post #21

bovermyer wrote: post #7

The author offers it as a warning against using Apple Card. I read it as confirmation that Google would do well to focus on customer service for once.

What's easier? Not getting an Apple card or changing Google.

I'm honestly not sure, I'd say getting off Google is the "better" choice with that kind of arbitrary risk of a ban.

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#55

Post by cortesoft » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 7:57 PM UTC

laurentdc wrote: post #5

Why the war on virtual cards? My bank lets me create infinite "throwaway" credit cards that work for a single payment or up to a certain expiry date. They're great for never having to expose your real card number and keeping track of maximum spend. Are these classified as virtual cards? I use them all the time for Facebook ads and was planning to set up a AdWords campaign too, but now I'm worried

The issue is that this is bypassing one of the things some companies use your credit card as - collateral.

For example, if you rent something, the credit card is used as a guarantee that you will return the item. If you don't, they can charge the card for the full price.

If you use virtual cards, they can't do that.

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#56

Post by PopeDotNinja » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 7:58 PM UTC

skykooler wrote: post #22

alanfranz wrote: post #13

Beyond the fact that I don't understand why a virtual card should be a problem, I think that this era of "we can deny you a service and tell you nothing" should stop. It's one of the biggest issues of the modern internet. I understand that laws are different around the world. In Italy, whatever is defined as a "public exercise" - anything offering its services to the anybody, be it a shop, a store, a cafè, a restaura…

There's rules about discrimination for specific reasons: you can't discriminate based on age, race, gender, etc. "Which credit card" you use isn't one of those categories, so it's legal to discriminate based on it. (And is often done, though not to this extent; many places, for example, will accept Visa and Mastercard but not Discover.)

I'm so glad it isn't my job to fight fraud. I worked at a place that would blacklist entire countries from signing up for their service, as a disproportionate number if fraudulent sign ups came from those countries. Every now and then I'd be contacted by an apparently regular customer who just wanted to try the service, and there was nothing I could do to help them, even when I really wanted to. I hated every part of feeling dealing with that stupid fraud system.

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#57

Post by _qbjt » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 7:59 PM UTC

> I'm not some huckster with a spam website.

Ironically, you could make the case that Google itself fits this description.

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#58

Post by duxup » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 8:00 PM UTC

jonknee wrote: post #2

Google's classic canned response of "We've confirmed we're right, we will not tell you why and this is the last reply you'll receive" is one of the most infuriating things I can imagine. I make my income primarily through AdSense and live in fear of that email one day. In this scenario it seems pretty obvious that their automated fraud AI messed up, but the customer service person is probably also automated. They hav…

We thought the sci-fi style evil AI would become the overlord making nonsensical decisions that can't be appealed.

But really, humans are happy to do it to each other.

It makes sense I guess as those sci-fi AIs are often to some extent or another trying to save us from, other humans, or at least that was their origin.

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#59

Post by r00fus » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 8:00 PM UTC

jaclaz wrote: post #31

skykooler wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's rules about discrimination for specific reasons: you can't discriminate based on age, race, gender, etc. "Which credit card" you use isn't one of those categories, so it's legal to discriminate based on it. (And is often done, though not to this extent; many places, for example, will accept Visa and Mastercard but not Discover.)

>so it's legal to discriminate based on it. (And is often done, though not to this extent; many places, for example, will accept Visa and Mastercard but not Discover.) Sure, but one thing is: "Sorry, I cannot accept Discover, do you happen to have another means of payment?" and another one is: "Sorry, I cannot accept Discover, and since you presented one of those cards to me once, then you are prevented for the rest…

The relief for that would be for the customer to talk to everyone and tell them how bad the vendor is, and go to another vendor who offers the same service.

In this case, Google is effectively a monopoly/2Big2Fail in advertising. So that remedy is not available or is impractical.

So the issue is not necessarily the behaviors (while reprehensible) but the size of the company.

Re: Banned from Google Ads for Using Apple Card

#60

Post by atemerev » Fri, Aug 30, 2019, 8:00 PM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #4

jonknee wrote: post #2

Google's classic canned response of "We've confirmed we're right, we will not tell you why and this is the last reply you'll receive" is one of the most infuriating things I can imagine. I make my income primarily through AdSense and live in fear of that email one day. In this scenario it seems pretty obvious that their automated fraud AI messed up, but the customer service person is probably also automated. They hav…

> I make my income primarily through AdSense and live in fear of that email one day. Perhaps you should change this? If you're aware your entire livelihood is a game of Russian roulette, you should maybe work on making it something else.

It is kind of hard to just “change” one’s principal passive income source. It’s not like taking another job if you don’t like the current one. Such things can take years.