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GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

bloomberg.com

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Re: GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

#41

Post by AareyBaba »

tempsy wrote: post #4

I’m mostly positive about Andrew Yang but it’s frustrating to know he would point to something like this and scream “automation” when GM’s downsizing has more to do with outsourcing and a slowing market than anything remotely related to robots taking over jobs.

It's much easier to picture robots and automation than go into complicated discussions about outsourcing and market forces. Main stream media gives Yang less than 2 minutes to explain his platform when he appears on TV so he has to distill it down into sound bites. The next Democratic debate is going to be another reality TV squawk fest with 10 candidates on stage prepped to throw oneliners and soundbites.

Re: GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

#43

Post by AngryData »

fastball wrote: post #40
tempsy wrote: post #4

I’m mostly positive about Andrew Yang but it’s frustrating to know he would point to something like this and scream “automation” when GM’s downsizing has more to do with outsourcing and a slowing market than anything remotely related to robots taking over jobs.

What's the difference between automation and outsourcing when what you care about is American's losing jobs and not having a backup?

Automation is at least some jobs and they pay well for those few who do it. It also helps move money around in the local economy more.

Re: GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

#44

Post by stochastic_monk »

perl4ever wrote: post #20
wcunning wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oooph, as someone in the automotive industry, I would avoid that thing like the plague. Have you checked the recall for going through the car wash causing that truck to light on fire[0]? One burned down at my neighborhood convenience store a couple of weeks ago... I would much much much more readily trust the engineering of GM on trucks, but that's probably only meaningful if you actually intend to tow something. I h…

Number 1 hit for "F-150 recalls": "Ford Motor Company (Ford) is recalling certain 2018 Ford Expedition, F-150, and Lincoln Navigator vehicles equipped with 3.5L GTDI V6 engines. These vehicles have high pressure fuel pump assemblies with welds that can fracture, which may cause an oil or fuel leak." That said, I don't own a pickup from any manufacturer.

I lost count of how many recalls there were for my Ford Focus, including one for my transmission software after 4 trips to my dealer to report a problem they wouldn’t fix.

I would strongly recommend avoiding Ford products.

Re: GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

#45

Post by AnthonyMouse »

bumby wrote: post #17
tempsy wrote: post #4

I’m mostly positive about Andrew Yang but it’s frustrating to know he would point to something like this and scream “automation” when GM’s downsizing has more to do with outsourcing and a slowing market than anything remotely related to robots taking over jobs.

I don't know much in this arena, but there's at least some evidence that automation may be double the job risk as outsourcing[0] https://talkbusiness.net/2017/07/ball-state-study-automation...

The difference between automation and outsourcing is that automation can actually save domestic jobs. Labor costs are lower in other countries and that is likely to continue, so for US workers to stay competitive they need to be more productive and justify the higher compensation. Which is what automation does -- you get more cars for the same number of labor hours, justifying the higher wages.

That means you get a choice between losing some jobs to reduced labor requirements from automation but keeping the remaining ones, or losing all of them to foreign labor competition. Which may itself use automation regardless of what you do domestically.

You can also get net job gains from automation in markets subject to the Jevons paradox. You make each widget cost 50% as much by reducing jobs by 50%, but that causes people to buy ten times as many widgets, so you really end up with five times as many domestic jobs. Or five times as many foreign jobs, if the other country automates and you don't.

Re: GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

#46

Post by bitexploder »

sharkweek wrote: post #10
AmVess wrote: post #8

They are pushing production and engineering to anywhere not the USA, so this trend of having fewer workers isn't going to stop until all that's left of GM is the headquarters. I'm not Chicken-Littling either. This trend has been many decades in the making, and it only has one logical endpoint. I was looking at their trucks, and left the showroom when I saw one that had 45% domestic content. I bought a truck that had…

As someone in the market for a truck, why specifically USA and not somewhere else? I’m looking at the Toyota Tacoma as my number one choice, but this is not a strongly held desire if there is something better.

I’m a fan of Ford trucks myself, drive a F150 for off-roading. Tacoma and Jeep Wrangler out here in CO are extremely popular and have great reputations. The build quality on Ford stuff is fine. I think the recommendation for Ranger is solid, but I am not sure if it is better. If you are really serious about off-roading full sized trucks are not ideal (too wide/long).

Re: GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

#47

Post by sh-run »

sharkweek wrote: post #10
AmVess wrote: post #8

They are pushing production and engineering to anywhere not the USA, so this trend of having fewer workers isn't going to stop until all that's left of GM is the headquarters. I'm not Chicken-Littling either. This trend has been many decades in the making, and it only has one logical endpoint. I was looking at their trucks, and left the showroom when I saw one that had 45% domestic content. I bought a truck that had…

As someone in the market for a truck, why specifically USA and not somewhere else? I’m looking at the Toyota Tacoma as my number one choice, but this is not a strongly held desire if there is something better.

I absolutely love my Tacoma. It's a 2009 4dr TRD Sport with 164,000 miles. I have no desire to 'upgrade' to something newer. My only regret is getting the short bed, I sleep in the back a few times a year and it'd be nice to not need to sleep in the diagonal.

The people I know who own the 3rd gen Tacomas seem to like them just as much as I like mine.

Re: GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

#48

Post by sharkweek »

sh-run wrote: post #47
sharkweek wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone in the market for a truck, why specifically USA and not somewhere else? I’m looking at the Toyota Tacoma as my number one choice, but this is not a strongly held desire if there is something better.

I absolutely love my Tacoma. It's a 2009 4dr TRD Sport with 164,000 miles. I have no desire to 'upgrade' to something newer. My only regret is getting the short bed, I sleep in the back a few times a year and it'd be nice to not need to sleep in the diagonal. The people I know who own the 3rd gen Tacomas seem to like them just as much as I like mine.

I’ve got a 2000 4Runner that is still running great, but looking to switch to a truck in the next couple of years.

My thought, years ago, was to wait for the 4Runner to break down then upgrade, but I’m now starting to wonder if that’s still a few years (decades?!) off.

Re: GM Is Now Detroit’s Smallest Auto-Making Employer

#50

Post by dreamcompiler »

AmVess wrote: post #8

They are pushing production and engineering to anywhere not the USA, so this trend of having fewer workers isn't going to stop until all that's left of GM is the headquarters. I'm not Chicken-Littling either. This trend has been many decades in the making, and it only has one logical endpoint. I was looking at their trucks, and left the showroom when I saw one that had 45% domestic content. I bought a truck that had…

When Henry Ford built cars, he knew that the people making his cars were also buying his cars. That mantra was thrown out in the 80s. The new mantra was "make sure the people making the stuff are poorer than the people buying the stuff, and you [shareholders and executives] can pocket the extra profit margin."

The flaw in this theory is obvious: Eventually you run out of poor people willing to build things they themselves cannot afford to buy, and since the buyers of your stuff no longer have jobs, they're no longer buyers either.

And that's where we are today. It sucks, but a lot of wealthy people made a lot of money on the float while it lasted.

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