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U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

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Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#81

Post by ticmasta »

rosser wrote: post #37
hartator wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but this is not anecdotal. Weed can develop schizophrenia in 4-5% of the population that carries a specific gene. Ref: https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/mari...

drugabuse.gov should probably not be considered an un-biased source on the topic of drugs of abuse. Some of their material will be propaganda and FUD.

your statement is soundly countered in a similarly unsupported opinion above. You may not like their domain name but the paper and science behind it appear pretty sound.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#82

Post by dsfyu404ed »

kazinator wrote: post #52
40acres wrote: post #3

My brother smoked heavily during his teens and as a result developed schizophrenia / substance induced psychosis. It was generally terrifying to see him unable to complete thoughts and lose his train of thought. He's fine now but I definitely wouldn't be surprised if you told me those years knocked a couple of points off his IQ. I'm for decriminalization and legalization but at the core we need funding for long term…

You can also nuke points off your IQ by drinking acetone or inhaling the fumes. I'm all for solvents to continue being legally offered for sale in hardware or paint stores, as they have for a hundred umpteen years, but we need funding for longer term studies ...

Weed, in its consumption form, (i.e. not hemp) doesn't have practical uses except maybe covering odors. Acetone does.

That said, hardware stores should be able to sell weed right beside the hand grenades and hard drugs should be available over the counter at any pharmacy that feels like stocking them.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#83

Post by mrosett »

umvi wrote: post #67
djsumdog wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as a result developed schizophrenia I'm sorry about your brother, but I want to point out this is anecdotal. Can cannibals lead to psychosis in people who are prone to it genetically, or are people who start experiencing delusions, bipolar and schizo-effective conditions just likely to escape using alcohol and marijuana? The exact cause/effect conditions here are a big unknown.

Can we stop with the downplaying when it comes to drugs? Drugs should be guilty until proven innocent. Comments like these attempt to make them innocent until proven guilty. History has shown that there are very few "safe" recreational drugs. This attitude is one of the reasons it was so hard for public opinion to change on tobacco usage. "My mom died of cancer from smoking tobacco" "Sorry about your mom, but I want…

I'm looking forward to people talking about "Big Weed" in 20 years with the contempt currently reserved for "Big Tobacco."

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#84

Post by rosser »

losteric wrote: post #79
rosser wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

drugabuse.gov should probably not be considered an un-biased source on the topic of drugs of abuse. Some of their material will be propaganda and FUD.

So that's as far as you got? Didn't like the domain, therefore the study results are bunk? 75% of the authors are affiliated with other institutions, only 3 are with the National Institute on Drug Abuse. NIDA itself is well-grounded. There have been some instances where they take a more conservative stance given uncertainty in results, but this is still a national scientific institute - not DARE or the DoJ. Finally,…

Would you care to speculate again about how much time I've spent reading their literature before this discussion? I promise you, it's non-zero. Please try not to dismiss people's positions that shallowly; it's a disservice to the conversation we're trying to have, and it's rude.

I am involved in a number of communities that engage intentionally, even sacramentally, with psychedelics. The amount of sheer bullshit they continue to promulgate on that matter, about which I consider myself advanced-lay to burgeoning-expert, is staggering, and is sufficient for me to be default skeptical of anything else they might have to say. When you lie to me about things I know something about, I'm obligated to trust the rest of your oeuvre somewhat less, aren't I?

Finally, I said nothing whatsoever about the conclusion of the paper under general discussion. In point of fact, I generally agree with it.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#85

Post by mrosett »

neaden wrote: post #27
numakerg wrote: post #5

> Edible marijuana takes time to absorb and to produce its effects, increasing the risk of unintentional overdose No citation for this. Do they mean a larger than intended dose or a dose that results in a serious toxic reaction or death? Better source: Median lethal THC dose for a 70kg human estimated to be 4g [0], which is slightly over 1300 full joints (at 3mg per joint) [0]. I won't link them here, but a cursory w…

Larger than intended I would assume. There are plenty of reports of people consuming an edible, not feeling anything for twenty minutes, consuming more, and then having a bad trip.

Anecdotally, I've heard that story a couple times.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#86

Post by leetcrew »

high_derivative wrote: post #48
40acres wrote: post #3

My brother smoked heavily during his teens and as a result developed schizophrenia / substance induced psychosis. It was generally terrifying to see him unable to complete thoughts and lose his train of thought. He's fine now but I definitely wouldn't be surprised if you told me those years knocked a couple of points off his IQ. I'm for decriminalization and legalization but at the core we need funding for long term…

It totally weirds me out how defensive people are about your anecdote here. Talking to any clinical psychotherapist dealing with young adults, you will hear lots of stories about weed-induced psychosis and anxiety. What I wonder is why it matters to people that it's not as safe as they may believe? Cognitive dissonance? We do lots of unsafe things.

there's a fairly deep schism between the "I should be free to harm myself however I want" crowd and the "we need to protect people from themselves" crowd. the first group doesn't necessarily believe drugs are as safe as they publicly claim, but they fear that discussions about harm are the first step towards issuing or doubling down on bans. they don't think it becomes safe by winning a debate; they just don't want to let the second group win the debate on the record.

the second group, for their part, tend to come off as sanctimonious busybodies.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#87

Post by 40acres »

weberc2 wrote: post #56
40acres wrote: post #3

My brother smoked heavily during his teens and as a result developed schizophrenia / substance induced psychosis. It was generally terrifying to see him unable to complete thoughts and lose his train of thought. He's fine now but I definitely wouldn't be surprised if you told me those years knocked a couple of points off his IQ. I'm for decriminalization and legalization but at the core we need funding for long term…

> I'm for decriminalization and legalization but at the core we need funding for long term studies to better understand marijuana's effects. This is sort of the inverse of the anti-GMO position: "we should ban GMOs until we understand them". I wonder if there are many legalize-weed / ban-GMO folks, and how they would defend their position?

Ha, call it the libertarian / data-driven approach. Frenzy over drugs like marijuana and cocaine fueled the "war on drugs" which devastated communities -- so I'm a proponent of throwing out simple possession convictions and decriminalization, legalization in my mind will help keep it out of the hands of minor (I have no data). I'm for everyone knowing what they're getting into.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#88

Post by leroy_masochist »

hartator wrote: post #70
bregma wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you really think a publication from a place with a URL 'drugabuse.gov' is going to be a reliable source of unbiased information?

If you want to nitpick on the source, this is another source with a full publication: > Variation at the rs2494732 locus of the AKT1 gene predicted acute psychotic response to cannabis along with dependence on the drug and baseline schizotypal symptoms. Ref: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4872423/

Thanks for this specific info! If anyone reading this has done 23andMe, your ATK1 / rs2494732 genotype is available on there (search for those terms, it comes right up).

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#89

Post by kazinator »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #82
kazinator wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can also nuke points off your IQ by drinking acetone or inhaling the fumes. I'm all for solvents to continue being legally offered for sale in hardware or paint stores, as they have for a hundred umpteen years, but we need funding for longer term studies ...

Weed, in its consumption form, (i.e. not hemp) doesn't have practical uses except maybe covering odors. Acetone does. That said, hardware stores should be able to sell weed right beside the hand grenades and hard drugs should be available over the counter at any pharmacy that feels like stocking them.

No; weed could be self-serve, whereas hand grenades should definitely be in a locked glass display case.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#90

Post by weberc2 »

40acres wrote: post #87
weberc2 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm for decriminalization and legalization but at the core we need funding for long term studies to better understand marijuana's effects. This is sort of the inverse of the anti-GMO position: "we should ban GMOs until we understand them". I wonder if there are many legalize-weed / ban-GMO folks, and how they would defend their position?

Ha, call it the libertarian / data-driven approach. Frenzy over drugs like marijuana and cocaine fueled the "war on drugs" which devastated communities -- so I'm a proponent of throwing out simple possession convictions and decriminalization, legalization in my mind will help keep it out of the hands of minor (I have no data). I'm for everyone knowing what they're getting into.

My question was about squaring the "legalize-weed" position with the "ban-GMOs" position. You only addressed the first part of my question as far as I can tell.
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