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U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

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Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#51

Post by Circuits »

ssully wrote: post #17
djsumdog wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as a result developed schizophrenia I'm sorry about your brother, but I want to point out this is anecdotal. Can cannibals lead to psychosis in people who are prone to it genetically, or are people who start experiencing delusions, bipolar and schizo-effective conditions just likely to escape using alcohol and marijuana? The exact cause/effect conditions here are a big unknown.

The person you are replying too understands that it is anecdotal, which is why they mentioned that it's a woefully understudied topic and needs more funding for long term studies.

"My brother smoked heavily during his teens and as a result developed schizophrenia / substance induced psychosis." - that is a statement of fact so.. apparently not.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#52

Post by kazinator »

40acres wrote: post #3

My brother smoked heavily during his teens and as a result developed schizophrenia / substance induced psychosis. It was generally terrifying to see him unable to complete thoughts and lose his train of thought. He's fine now but I definitely wouldn't be surprised if you told me those years knocked a couple of points off his IQ. I'm for decriminalization and legalization but at the core we need funding for long term…

You can also nuke points off your IQ by drinking acetone or inhaling the fumes.

I'm all for solvents to continue being legally offered for sale in hardware or paint stores, as they have for a hundred umpteen years, but we need funding for longer term studies ...

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#53

Post by bregma »

djsumdog wrote: post #12
numakerg wrote: post #5

> Edible marijuana takes time to absorb and to produce its effects, increasing the risk of unintentional overdose No citation for this. Do they mean a larger than intended dose or a dose that results in a serious toxic reaction or death? Better source: Median lethal THC dose for a 70kg human estimated to be 4g [0], which is slightly over 1300 full joints (at 3mg per joint) [0]. I won't link them here, but a cursory w…

Is there a listed Median Lethal Dose (LD50) for THC or CBD? It is possible to overdose on nicotine if it's ingested (50mg ~60mg for a 150lbs adult, according to the CDC's website), but I'm not sure if there is such an amount defined for THC ingestion.

For THC it's somewhere around your own body weight. I suppose you might get the munchies real bad and OD. Don't bake a dozen hash carrot cakes with cream cheese icing all at one time.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#54

Post by dmix »

hartator wrote: post #16
djsumdog wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> as a result developed schizophrenia I'm sorry about your brother, but I want to point out this is anecdotal. Can cannibals lead to psychosis in people who are prone to it genetically, or are people who start experiencing delusions, bipolar and schizo-effective conditions just likely to escape using alcohol and marijuana? The exact cause/effect conditions here are a big unknown.

Not the OP, but this is not anecdotal. Weed can develop schizophrenia in 4-5% of the population that carries a specific gene. Ref: https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/mari...

> The strongest evidence to date concerns links between marijuana use and substance use disorders and between marijuana use and psychiatric disorders in those with a preexisting genetic or other vulnerability.

> After adjusting for various confounding factors, no association between marijuana use and mood and anxiety disorders was found. The only significant associations were increased risk of alcohol use disorders, nicotine dependence, marijuana use disorder, and other drug use disorders.

It's pretty well established even in hardcore drug communities that drugs aren't for everybody and it's rarely ever the drug itself that caused it. Even without scientific evidence.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#55

Post by tdb7893 »

rosser wrote: post #18
hartator wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This. I am all for legalization but it’s not a safe drug. Induced schizophrenia by weed can be a thing if you carry a specific gene.

The association between cannabis and schizophrenia remains, as far as I'm aware, primarily statistical, and other factors like familial history are significantly more predictive. EDIT: That is, I don't think we have sufficient understanding to say whether pot abuse causes schizophrenia, or schizophrenics are more likely to abuse pot. Given what I know of how awful a ride that is, self-medicating that devolves into ab…

The thing for me is the fact that it might lead to schizophrenia is still scary. I've met a lot of people on the "it's not proven so I'm going to assume it's safe" side and I never understood it but then again I'm fairly risk averse.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#56

Post by weberc2 »

40acres wrote: post #3

My brother smoked heavily during his teens and as a result developed schizophrenia / substance induced psychosis. It was generally terrifying to see him unable to complete thoughts and lose his train of thought. He's fine now but I definitely wouldn't be surprised if you told me those years knocked a couple of points off his IQ. I'm for decriminalization and legalization but at the core we need funding for long term…

> I'm for decriminalization and legalization but at the core we need funding for long term studies to better understand marijuana's effects.

This is sort of the inverse of the anti-GMO position: "we should ban GMOs until we understand them". I wonder if there are many legalize-weed / ban-GMO folks, and how they would defend their position?

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#57

Post by DanBC »

djsumdog wrote: post #6
40acres wrote: post #3

My brother smoked heavily during his teens and as a result developed schizophrenia / substance induced psychosis. It was generally terrifying to see him unable to complete thoughts and lose his train of thought. He's fine now but I definitely wouldn't be surprised if you told me those years knocked a couple of points off his IQ. I'm for decriminalization and legalization but at the core we need funding for long term…

> as a result developed schizophrenia I'm sorry about your brother, but I want to point out this is anecdotal. Can cannibals lead to psychosis in people who are prone to it genetically, or are people who start experiencing delusions, bipolar and schizo-effective conditions just likely to escape using alcohol and marijuana? The exact cause/effect conditions here are a big unknown.

Currently we strongly think that cannabis use can cause psychotic illness in some people, and that some of those would not have gone on to develop psychotic illness if they had not used cannabis.

But it's really complex.

People with schizophrenia smoke. They start smoking early, they smoke more frequently, and when they smoke they inhale deeper. EG, this, but there are lots of similar: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/25991762/

It's hard to unpick the causal directions. But the precautionary principle is sound: there's not many benefits to children of smoking cannabis, so they should probably avoid it.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#58

Post by SargeZT »

VeninVidiaVicii wrote: post #22

One of the implications of this report is absurd. Why does the Surgeon General feel the need to clarify that one particular aspect of cannabis is deleterious, when their stance is that the substance is Schedule 1?

Ultimately because of the CSA the attorney general is responsible for all decisions on scheduling substances. By the letter of the law, they're supposed to consult with HHS and by extension the surgeon general, but in reality, it's a rubberstamped process largely controlled by the DEA.

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#59

Post by bduerst »

bregma wrote: post #41
hartator wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but this is not anecdotal. Weed can develop schizophrenia in 4-5% of the population that carries a specific gene. Ref: https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/mari...

Do you really think a publication from a place with a URL 'drugabuse.gov' is going to be a reliable source of unbiased information?

Which of their cited sources are wrong?

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/mari...

Specifically, these peer reviewed science articles:

* https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22831980

* https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26886046

* https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15866551

Re: U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory: Marijuana Use and the Developing Brain

#60

Post by DanBC »

bregma wrote: post #41
hartator wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not the OP, but this is not anecdotal. Weed can develop schizophrenia in 4-5% of the population that carries a specific gene. Ref: https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/research-reports/mari...

Do you really think a publication from a place with a URL 'drugabuse.gov' is going to be a reliable source of unbiased information?

They're not self-published.
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