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MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

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Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#531

Post by Kipters »

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #519
Kipters wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. If you don't care about MacOS, and want a different keyboard, please buy a Lenovo Carbon X1 and leave us happy Macbook Pro users in peace. I would gladly get a Carbon X1 or an XPS 15 if my work didn't require me to use macOS (or better: if Apple didn't require me to use macOS to build iOS apps). Sadly I can't and so I'm too stuck with a 2018 MacBook Pro and its crappy keyboard > 2. If your keyboard breaks, Apple…

> My company has already shelled out a couple grands for this machine, suggesting to use a Bluetooth keyboard is offensive given the price point of this laptop and how cumbersome and uncomfortable using an external keyboard on a laptop is. I'd honestly describe using the built-in keyboard (and especially trackpad) on most laptops as cumbersome and uncomfortable. Unless you really need to have a mobile workstation - r…

> I'd honestly describe using the built-in keyboard (and especially trackpad) on most laptops as cumbersome and uncomfortable.

I somewhat agree given the topic, but I think carrying, having to charge and balancing a Bluetooth keyboard while you're using a laptop as a laptop (on your lap instead of on a desk) is a tad worse

> Unless you really need to have a mobile workstation - running between meetings, conference rooms, into lots of labs/industrial environments where you can't bring a laptop cart with monitor/keyboard...why would you not dock the machine?

> Even if you prefer the feel of the keyboard or trackpad, wouldn't you want the ergonomics to be better than a laptop if you're working on it all day? A pair or trio of 20+ inch displays mounted just below eye height at about reach distance, ergonomic keyboard with elbows at about 90 degrees, and full size mouse will always be a better workstation than the nicest laptop keyboard, trackpad, and 15" display hinged to said keyboard.

On my desk(s) the laptop is usually docked and connected to external monitors and an external (and ergonomic) keyboard and mouse kit, but I happen to work from trains, planes, airports, coworkings or from the couch sometimes. I also like the ability to just close the lid and quickly move somewhere else if needed, having to use a Bluetooth keyboard for this case is awkward to say the least. At this point, why get a laptop at all?

(disclaimer: I'm 100% pro desktop PCs)

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#532

Post by Kipters »

bluedino wrote: post #505
Kipters wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. If you don't care about MacOS, and want a different keyboard, please buy a Lenovo Carbon X1 and leave us happy Macbook Pro users in peace. I would gladly get a Carbon X1 or an XPS 15 if my work didn't require me to use macOS (or better: if Apple didn't require me to use macOS to build iOS apps). Sadly I can't and so I'm too stuck with a 2018 MacBook Pro and its crappy keyboard > 2. If your keyboard breaks, Apple…

>> after three product releases Four. Don't forget the 2015 MacBook Retina.

You're right, I've had completely forgotten that one!

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#533

Post by type0 »

penagwin wrote: post #477
vegardx wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> having to wait 3 days for a repair, even though it is done in-store is truly infuriating Oh - but it gets worse. I had my keyboard replaced a year ago, and it took over a week. In Norway they don't stock US International keyboards, which I can accept, but they can't (or won't, hard to tell) order a replacement unit before taking it into service. So it has to stay with them while they wait a 3-5 days just to get the…

I worked in computer/ phone repair - given the context keys falling off should definitely be under warranty. However lacking that context (let's assume there aren't widespread keyboard issues for that model) keys falling off could be the result of "rough handling" - we can't tell if a frustrated user was pounding at their keys or not, etc But yeah given the known widespread keyboard issues for the Macbooks...

"rough handling" hehe. Wouldn't surprise me if Apple went and said this right out: stop typing that hard on our delicate little keys, be gentle, remember when you were holding our iDevice incorrectly? and we told you so.

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#534

Post by mcv »

otakucode wrote: post #507
mcv wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are different use cases for different laptops. I can certainly see the advantage of a laptop that's as light as possible, but that's never going to be a 15" laptop. On the other hand, some people want lots of power or a massive screen, and then making it as thin as possible just makes no sense.

Why is a very lightweight 15" laptop out of the realm of possibility? It's not like displays today are inherently heavy. If OLED panels become viable for notebooks, they weigh nearly nothing, but even with existing LCDs with LED backlighting, those don't weigh much either. They do need to pay attention to making the case rigid across a larger area, but that ought to be possible without adding too much weight given mo…

It's possible of course, but it's a compromise between weight and screen size. Even a 17" laptop can be light, as the LG Gram 17 proves. Though it's not very rigid, from what I understand.

But if weight is your primary concern, it makes more sense to go for a small screen. If you go for a larger screen, you're already accepting a bit more weight. How much depends, but personally I'd expect a laptop that sacrifices weight for a larger screen to also sacrifice some weight to have a slightly better keyboard.

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#535

Post by Kipters »

hsk823 wrote: post #504
Kipters wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. If you don't care about MacOS, and want a different keyboard, please buy a Lenovo Carbon X1 and leave us happy Macbook Pro users in peace. I would gladly get a Carbon X1 or an XPS 15 if my work didn't require me to use macOS (or better: if Apple didn't require me to use macOS to build iOS apps). Sadly I can't and so I'm too stuck with a 2018 MacBook Pro and its crappy keyboard > 2. If your keyboard breaks, Apple…

I agree with your general point, the last three generations of MBP keyboards are unacceptable, but just because something has "Pro" in it's name, doesn't make it professional or enterprise or mil spec.

I agree, I too think naming something "Pro" is stupid (especially when you don't have a "non-Pro" counterpart). It just adds a pinch of irony to the whole situation: they're selling it as a professional machine, and it can't stand normal use by a large part of people who use it professionally without failing hard

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#536

Post by Kipters »

prepreference wrote: post #516
Kipters wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1. If you don't care about MacOS, and want a different keyboard, please buy a Lenovo Carbon X1 and leave us happy Macbook Pro users in peace. I would gladly get a Carbon X1 or an XPS 15 if my work didn't require me to use macOS (or better: if Apple didn't require me to use macOS to build iOS apps). Sadly I can't and so I'm too stuck with a 2018 MacBook Pro and its crappy keyboard > 2. If your keyboard breaks, Apple…

> my work That’s a lot of words to express that you never feel truly free.

"What I do daily so I can pay rent and eat" sounds better?

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#537

Post by PascLeRasc »

mushufasa wrote: post #60
sesteel wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same! I installed the Pop! OS Linux distro and everything seems fine. It doesn’t have the battery life I’d hope, but I have a terminal and 32GB memory for less than a new Macbook with less memory. The keyboard works well.

I'm clinging to my 2015 MBP until it breaks, and it scared me a few times recently. So I bought a backup x230 for ~$100 just in case, and loaded Pop!. To be honest, I think I like Pop! better than OSX. I hadn't used linux distros before because I'm not trying to spend my time fiddling around with the OS, I want things to just work and get out of my way. Pop! does. It's got that miryokuteki hinshitsu. And the ability…

PopOS is fantastic, and if you're looking to stay in the Ubuntu domain it's by far the best version out there. But your tastes sound a lot like mine, so I'd like to throw out a recommendation for Manjaro, it's incredibly well-polished and the rolling-release is great. It'll likely run a bit faster too since it's Arch-based.

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#538

Post by type0 »

traderjane wrote: post #347
tolmasky wrote: post #37

The worst part is that I can tell this keyboard is actually having a detrimental effect on my typing abilities. Since being on these keyboards for years now, I've noticed that my typing speed has slowed, as I spend a significant amount of cognitive energy preparing to fix mistakes. The faster you type, the more annoying it is to go farther back to fix something. I'm not sure how to quantify the focus it steals from t…

Does Apple not offer a loaner laptop during that period? If not, I'm quite unimpressed. These laptops are expected to be purchased by working professionals... what does Apple imagine is the customer workflow when an issue arises? Pause your work while the laptop is in repair?

> These laptops are expected to be purchased by working professionals

But these are not business type products, macbook pro laptops are luxury consumer goods if anything.

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#539

Post by penagwin »

type0 wrote: post #533
penagwin wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked in computer/ phone repair - given the context keys falling off should definitely be under warranty. However lacking that context (let's assume there aren't widespread keyboard issues for that model) keys falling off could be the result of "rough handling" - we can't tell if a frustrated user was pounding at their keys or not, etc But yeah given the known widespread keyboard issues for the Macbooks...

"rough handling" hehe. Wouldn't surprise me if Apple went and said this right out: stop typing that hard on our delicate little keys, be gentle, remember when you were holding our iDevice incorrectly? and we told you so.

Don't get me wrong, it would just be Apple throwing excuses here.

In general you never know with people :P. We also bought tablets/phones. Guy came in with his kids, kid tries to sell us a kindle fire that's in great condition that he "found in the woods" - right the woods? Do you mean somebodies backpack?

Re: MacBook Pro Keyboard Drives Me Crazy

#540

Post by cujo »

8draco8 wrote: post #478
cujo wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to believe this, and as there is no evidence one way or the other, it sounds good enough that it makes me hopeful for future products. My question is, what did Ive do that was truly great? I honestly don't know and his name is mostly brought up with respect to designs that didn't pan out. What did he do that everyone seems to respect him as an uber-designer? I do think, for a while at least, apple's design was…

Pretty much everything what Apple made since original iMac G3 was Ive design and I think the biggest thing that he did was that original iMac G3. The story is pretty simple, Ive became Apple employee around 92 so before Jobs big comeback. Back in those days he had soft spot for translucent plastics. This showed beautifully in his first serious design for Apple, Apple Newton eMate. When Jobs came back to Apple he was…

Thanks for the background. Ive's wikipedia page didn't have much.
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