Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years • Hacker News Board

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#251

Post by linnaeus » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 6:39 PM UTC

taffer wrote: post #212

yters wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not getting the connection here. I don't think contraceptives are used to prevent the existence of a child living a life of suffering. They seem most often used to avoid inconvenience on the side of the potential parents.

One could argue that billions of children have no chance to exist because of contraceptives, just as you argue that billions of animals have no chance to exist if we stopped breeding them.

If they don't exist they can't be harmed by not being brought into existence; since there is no one there to suffer a deprivation.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#252

Post by yters » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 6:41 PM UTC

nojvek wrote: post #235

yters wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should we sterilize animals in the wild since they suffer too, possibly even more than animals in captivity?

why would animals in wild suffer more than in captivity? In captivity animals go through hell, tiny living spaces, shit and eat in same place, hormones injected, little freedom. Tons of videos on youtube if you feel like watching some gore. It's not about taking suffering away. Animals born in the wild live their life naturally. Animals created by us in farms are raised for one thing, for human consumption. If an ani…

By that criteria, I can't say pets necessarily have a better life, either.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#253

Post by okmokmz » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 6:44 PM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #245

okmokmz wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A vegan is someone who refuses to eat any animal products Yes, that is the definition of vegan as a noun. As an adjective vegan is describing food using or containing no animal products i.e. traditional dishes that don't contain animal products are technically vegan, just like all other dishes that don't contain animal products It's absolutely not hijacking traditional culture. I'm not mandating they call that dish…

Vegan as an adjective is a new term, or at least its use has exploded. This has happened partly for political purposes to hijack aspects of culture, and partly for marketing purposes as a result of this.

Those are unfounded assumptions and opinions. It also doesn't change the fact that that is the current definition of vegan. You can use the word however you want, but the way I'm using it is correct based on the dictionary definition

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#254

Post by Japhy_Ryder » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 6:47 PM UTC

SomeOtherThrow wrote: post #250

Japhy_Ryder wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the idea that we drink milk because of marketing, .. milk, is laughable. What? "Got Milk"? Milk mustaches on famous people and athletes? Come on. > plant "milk" lobby, on the other hand tries to trick me into buying their product every time Au contraire! That pesky, evil, plant milk lobby! Are you really that confused when it says "soy", "milk", "oat", "almond" right before "milk"?

> What? "Got Milk"? Milk mustaches on famous people and athletes? Come on. So—you're saying NOBODY would drink milk if they stopped advertising after THOUSANDS OF YEARS of drinking it as adults (true with my genes!) and MILLIONS OF YEARS of juvenile mammalian existence? Extent is not the same as the sole cause. I drink milk because it makes me nostalgic for my childhood and hey, it's calories, baby! In any case, you…

> I drink milk because it makes me nostalgic for my childhood and hey, it's calories, baby!

Nostalgia, huh? Is that worth the environmental damage and severe ethics concerns? Not to mention, uh, you're drinking a cow's milk that should be for its children. We're the only species that does that. It's so odd.

Soy milk tastes great, has a nice nutrition profile, and is actually good for you (and the environment, and the animals).

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#255

Post by linnaeus » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 6:54 PM UTC

nojvek wrote: post #235

yters wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Should we sterilize animals in the wild since they suffer too, possibly even more than animals in captivity?

why would animals in wild suffer more than in captivity? In captivity animals go through hell, tiny living spaces, shit and eat in same place, hormones injected, little freedom. Tons of videos on youtube if you feel like watching some gore. It's not about taking suffering away. Animals born in the wild live their life naturally. Animals created by us in farms are raised for one thing, for human consumption. If an ani…

> why would animals in wild suffer more than in captivity?

Not necessarily more in every case but they do suffer in many different ways. Nonhuman animals in the wild are routinely exposed to: starvation, dehydration, disease, injuries, predation, parasitism and extreme weather conditions:

> The total amount of suffering per year in the natural world is beyond all decent contemplation. During the minute that it takes me to compose this sentence, thousands of animals are being eaten alive, many others are running for their lives, whimpering with fear, others are slowly being devoured from within by rasping parasites, thousands of all kinds are dying of starvation, thirst, and disease. It must be so. If there ever is a time of plenty, this very fact will automatically lead to an increase in the population until the natural state of starvation and misery is restored.

– Richard Dawkins, River Out of Eden: A Darwinian View of Life

> It's not about taking suffering away. Animals born in the wild live their life naturally.

A "natural" life does not necessarily mean a good one.

> Animals created by us in farms are raised for one thing, for human consumption. If an animal wants to run away in wild and do it's thing, it has that choice.

The choice to do what? The vast majority of nonhuman animals receive no help with their suffering. There are exceptions of course like when we help by rescuing trapped animals, vaccinating and healing injured and sick animals, caring for orphaned animals etc. But the general rule is a very short life (most nonhuman animals in the wild don't live to adulthood) with far more suffering experienced than happiness.

> Basically if we have slightest amount of empathy for our pets and are willing to apply that to other animals, eating meat doesn't look enticing

No disagreement here, but the same empathy should be given to nonhuman animals suffering in the wild and we should help to reduce their suffering as much as practically possible. Widespread interventions aren't practical now due to a lack of knowledge and resources but our future descendants may well be in a better position to make an effective difference.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#256

Post by mytailorisrich » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 6:58 PM UTC

okmokmz wrote: post #253

mytailorisrich wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vegan as an adjective is a new term, or at least its use has exploded. This has happened partly for political purposes to hijack aspects of culture, and partly for marketing purposes as a result of this.

Those are unfounded assumptions and opinions. It also doesn't change the fact that that is the current definition of vegan. You can use the word however you want, but the way I'm using it is correct based on the dictionary definition

Why has the use of the term exploded? Why should 'good old' dishes suddenly be labeled?

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#257

Post by Relys » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 6:58 PM UTC

jonfw wrote: post #193

Relys wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet you $10 they are a forced-birther. Under His Eye. Blessed be the fruit.

I believe abortion is generally immoral, but I also believe that my opinion is not important and should not dictate public policy. And when I say generally immoral, it obviously becomes nuanced when rape or young age is involved.

My parents decided to have an abortion because they were not financially ready to have children. I probably wouldn't exist if they hadn't. Does that mean their abortion had more right to live than I?

My parents lived for years with the guilt that had been instilled in them by their religious upbringing. It was one of the hardest decisions they ever had to make so they could give their future offspring the best life possible.

Research has shown that abortion laws lead to lower crime rates, lower poverty and a higher educated populous. My sisters and I are living proof of that.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#258

Post by saagarjha » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 7:01 PM UTC

mywittyname wrote: post #236

saagarjha wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Vegan can also mean food that doesn't involve the exploitation of animals. That version of veganism means no food that requires insect pollinators. I'm curious: what foods fall under this? Edit: I meant "what foods are OK to eat under this definition?"

Lots of nuts, almonds for example require bee hives to be transported all over the country to pollinate orchards.

I just realized that I asked the opposite of the question I wanted to know the answer to. I'll fix it above.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#259

Post by SomeOtherThrow » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 7:03 PM UTC

Japhy_Ryder wrote: post #219

SomeOtherThrow wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ever notice there are never any animal-based superfoods? This must be a marketing gimmick; eating animals is very nutritious—it's just not sufficient. However, this is the same as Avacado/acai berry/whatever. I have heard milk referred to as a superfood quite a bit.

> eating animals is very nutritious—it's just not sufficient. No. It's not. I like Dr. Fuhrman's equation: H=N/C. This equation expresses the concept that your health (H) is predicted by your nutrient intake (N) divided by your calorie intake (C). There's not a lot of nutrients in meat (all you get really is protein and iron), whereas in vegetables/fruits you get a whole vast assortment of proteins, vitamins, fiber,…

Sure, if you redefine nutrition in a way that you like, you're correct. You're not taking my words in good faith, though.

Re: Vegan takeaway orders quadruple over past two years

#260

Post by dustinmr » Wed, Aug 28, 2019, 7:06 PM UTC

lostgame wrote: post #96

I've also rapidly seen the number of popular vegan restaurants explode in the city of Toronto, where I live, over the past 3-4 years. One note a few people are making is that you don't have to be vegan to eat vegan. This is true, and purposeful - vegan food is generally of a relatively high quality - and a lot of what it offers is the direct contrast to most other North American-favoured food. Like they say Lucky Cha…

I passed through Toronto twice last week. Had a fantastic meal here: http://www.nourishmoi.com/

And you’re right, I don’t regularly keep vegan. But I do like the option sometimes.