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Mainlanders don't all view Hong Kong the same way

chinafile.com

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Re: Mainlanders don't all view Hong Kong the same way

#31

Post by Y_Y »

chrischen wrote: post #7
the_resistence wrote: post #2

Without all the facts, mainlanders will never be in a clear position to make a proper decision. That's how the system is designed.

To be fair, even with the facts I doubt the average person would ever be well-informed enough to make a proper decision. Governing should be a full time job done by professionals. Imagine if Apple were run by its users...

Imagine Apple were run by professionals! They'd employ sweatshop labour, charge exorbitant prices, and control a colossal pile of cash for which they cannot find a use.

Re: Mainlanders don't all view Hong Kong the same way

#32

Post by verroq »

kccqzy wrote: post #24
verroq wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The anti-American sentiment draws from the Boxer Rebellion and the Eight Nation Alliance that sacked the Summer Palace as well as America's support of the KMT during WW2. In the eyes of the Chinese, America eliminating Japan in WW2 doesn't absolve itself of its past grievances (nor its present ones i.e. playing world police and inserting itself into the South China Sea disputes).

In contrast I really think the root is an anti-Japanese sentiment instead of an anti-American one. For many centuries Japan had been considered a poorer and less powerful empire than the Chinese empire. But the Japanese had a successful Meiji restoration and surpassed China in industrial production and weaponry in the late 19th century. The Chinese lost a war to Japan. They still feel resented. The anti-Japanese sent…

Anti-Japan is more about the atrocities committed during WW2. Anti-America is more against the imperialism China experienced during the "century of humiliation".

Re: Mainlanders don't all view Hong Kong the same way

#33

Post by chrischen »

cryptonector wrote: post #29
chrischen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, even with the facts I doubt the average person would ever be well-informed enough to make a proper decision. Governing should be a full time job done by professionals. Imagine if Apple were run by its users...

Talk about anti-democratic.

Democracy is fair, not efficient.

Re: Mainlanders don't all view Hong Kong the same way

#34

Post by keiferski »

kccqzy wrote: post #26
devoply wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well what truth do you want? China wants to extradite Hong Kong citizens to China to stand trial. Hong Kong citizens want autonomy. This is a classic David vs Goliath battle.

The protests did start because of the extradition bill, but the bill has been dead for more than a month[0], yet the protests have not stopped. Can you see that the protestors are protesting about something else now? If the bill were the protesters' goal, they had already succeeded. The situation is so much more complicated than just an ill-conceived bill. It doesn't help things when media (or other people) try to si…

There seems to be a distinction between "withdrawn" and "dead."

Although the bill has not been formally withdrawn, on 9 July, Hong Kong's chief executive Carrie Lam said she has stopped the amendment process and reiterated there is 'no plan' to restart this process in the Legislative Council, stating: "the bill is dead".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hong_Kong_extradition_bil...

Re: Mainlanders don't all view Hong Kong the same way

#35

Post by paxys »

chrischen wrote: post #7
the_resistence wrote: post #2

Without all the facts, mainlanders will never be in a clear position to make a proper decision. That's how the system is designed.

To be fair, even with the facts I doubt the average person would ever be well-informed enough to make a proper decision. Governing should be a full time job done by professionals. Imagine if Apple were run by its users...

And what exactly is a "professional" governor?

Re: Mainlanders don't all view Hong Kong the same way

#36

Post by archibaldJ »

Nationalism aside as a Chinese citizen I believe all educated Chinese citizens should be grateful to the protesters in Hong Kong for the sole reason that these protesters are directly challenging the CCP (which is an extremely rare thing to happen in this day and age without the direct involvement of another superpower). It may be wishful thinking but I believe through direct confrontation like this CCP will learn and improve and reflect on all the shit it has done (just to name a few: the Tiananmen massacre, the disinformation campaign against Falun Gong and Jiang’s subsequent use of Falun Gong as a scapegoat to fulfil his political needs leading to more killings and screwed-up things like organ harvesting, the suppression and killings of the Tibetan culture and people, the on-going internment camps in Xinjiang, the kidnapping of Gui Minhai and others related to the Causeway Bay bookstore, etc) which collectively, in direct or indirect ways, lead to the pandemonium in Hong Kong today.

Re: Mainlanders don't all view Hong Kong the same way

#37

Post by toxik »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #20
verroq wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The anti-American sentiment draws from the Boxer Rebellion and the Eight Nation Alliance that sacked the Summer Palace as well as America's support of the KMT during WW2. In the eyes of the Chinese, America eliminating Japan in WW2 doesn't absolve itself of its past grievances (nor its present ones i.e. playing world police and inserting itself into the South China Sea disputes).

America supported both the KMT and communists, not to mention the soviets, during WW2. They didn’t really fall out with each other until the Korean War (at the start of which they decided to fully support the KMT after giving up on them after the war).

Could you imagine if China was under democratic rule, like Taiwan today? It really gives me a sinking feeling knowing that there was a better option, and it might have won if the Japanese hadn't attacked China, and if the Soviet hadn't been allowed to fuel the CCP. Such a historical misstep.

Re: Mainlanders don't all view Hong Kong the same way

#38

Post by dragonelite »

the_resistence wrote: post #2

Without all the facts, mainlanders will never be in a clear position to make a proper decision. That's how the system is designed.

From what i gathered 140 million mainlanders travel abroad each year. and 140 million mainlanders return to China.

That tells you enough people vote with their feets, wallet and voice.

Re: Mainlanders don't all view Hong Kong the same way

#39

Post by doktrin »

kccqzy wrote: post #10

Since I can read Chinese, I've been reading news coverage as well as opinions from both the English-speaking and the Chinese-speaking media. It is quite depressing to find that both sides are obviously biased. The Chinese news would emphasize isolated incidents of violence by the protesters during the protests, pontificate on it and publish op-eds analyzing the cause of the protests ranging from the failed economy of…

> The Chinese news would emphasize isolated incidents of violence by the protesters during the protests, pontificate on it and publish op-eds analyzing the cause of the protests ranging from the failed economy of Hong Kong to the profound corruption of its youth.

You still haven't explained what 'truth' is missing from the english language news coverage. Pontificating about the "corruption of HK youth" and cherry picking isolated cases of violence sounds more like partisan hatcheting than actual news or analysis.

> there's truth in both sides

Most likely, but the truth rarely exists at the median of both 'sides', or even anywhere close to it. Enlightened Centrism(tm) is dangerously myopic.

Re: Mainlanders don't all view Hong Kong the same way

#40

Post by sersi »

Y_Y wrote: post #31
chrischen wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, even with the facts I doubt the average person would ever be well-informed enough to make a proper decision. Governing should be a full time job done by professionals. Imagine if Apple were run by its users...

Imagine Apple were run by professionals! They'd employ sweatshop labour, charge exorbitant prices, and control a colossal pile of cash for which they cannot find a use.

And somehow completely fail to listen to their users when their users tell them that a working keyboard is a necessity in a laptop :)
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