21–30 of 83 posts
Does it matter what the mainlanders think? It's the communist party that controls China, not the general public.
A government without the support of its people generally gets removed by the people.
Does it matter what the mainlanders think? It's the communist party that controls China, not the general public.
Since I can read Chinese, I've been reading news coverage as well as opinions from both the English-speaking and the Chinese-speaking media. It is quite depressing to find that both sides are obviously biased. The Chinese news would emphasize isolated incidents of violence by the protesters during the protests, pontificate on it and publish op-eds analyzing the cause of the protests ranging from the failed economy of…
I don't see any element of truth in the "failed economy" narrative. That's one angle that we really can get to the truth of without any media bias. Are there any econometrics published from before the protests started that would indicate an economic cause? I haven't seen any but I also haven't looked hard enough to reject the premise.
Just an anecdote. I went to Beijing to watch the Olympics while I was in high school. During a volleyball game, I sat next to a local Chinese boy about my age and started talking with him. Apparently, at some Chinese schools, they give all of the students an English name. Kind of like how American schools give you a Spanish name for Spanish class. His name was Adolf. I asked him if he knew any other famous Adolf's. O…
The anti-American sentiment draws from the Boxer Rebellion and the Eight Nation Alliance that sacked the Summer Palace as well as America's support of the KMT during WW2. In the eyes of the Chinese, America eliminating Japan in WW2 doesn't absolve itself of its past grievances (nor its present ones i.e. playing world police and inserting itself into the South China Sea disputes).
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't see any element of truth in the "failed economy" narrative. That's one angle that we really can get to the truth of without any media bias. Are there any econometrics published from before the protests started that would indicate an economic cause? I haven't seen any but I also haven't looked hard enough to reject the premise.
Where did you look for them? https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/society/article/2174006/...
I legit don't know. I tried to find out just now and ended up on this wikipedia article.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_percentag...
This data set has a lot of N/A in it. I end up relying on the CIA estimate for basically all of them because no other column has data. Just for the sake of fair (albeit unscientific comparison) I'm picking out the stats from random first-world countries as I scroll through the list. I am using the second list titled "Population living below national poverty line"
Canada: 9.4%
Denmark: 13.4%
France: 14.2%
Germany: 16.7%
US: 12.3%
Japan: 16.1%
Hong Kong: 19.9%
Taking the data at face value, HK does seem to be above average in poverty, but likely within a standard deviation. HK is also unique in this list because its a de facto city-state. Perhaps when we break those other countries down per city we get similar results?
I'm not satisfied with the poverty line explanation. The protestors don't look to be poor people and we don't see such a degree of protest in other places with similar amounts of poverty.
Since I can read Chinese, I've been reading news coverage as well as opinions from both the English-speaking and the Chinese-speaking media. It is quite depressing to find that both sides are obviously biased. The Chinese news would emphasize isolated incidents of violence by the protesters during the protests, pontificate on it and publish op-eds analyzing the cause of the protests ranging from the failed economy of…
Well what truth do you want? China wants to extradite Hong Kong citizens to China to stand trial. Hong Kong citizens want autonomy. This is a classic David vs Goliath battle.
The situation is so much more complicated than just an ill-conceived bill. It doesn't help things when media (or other people) try to simplify things and frame it as something as clear cut as David vs Goliath.
[0]: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-asia-china-48918096/carrie...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't see any element of truth in the "failed economy" narrative. That's one angle that we really can get to the truth of without any media bias. Are there any econometrics published from before the protests started that would indicate an economic cause? I haven't seen any but I also haven't looked hard enough to reject the premise.
I can clarify. The "failed economy" narrative was mostly about the rising income inequality among Hong Kongers. The mainland news media is trying to portray Hong Kong as having a mismanaged economy so that these young people engaged in protests have seen very little increase in real income but face tremendous increase in cost of living. And they compare it unfavorably to the situation in mainland China where they cla…
The 3 narratives I see are
1. the organizers are sell-outs to the US and the followers are just stupid. Western imperialists want to split China again.
2. the protestors are rioters, violent mobs, essentially a zombie horde not a movement with demands that can be met.
3. the stated reasons for the protests aren't the real reason. the real cause is economic. (subtext: freedoms and democracy is intrinsically a Western thing and Chinese people asking for it are denying they're Chinese)
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Where did you look for them? https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/society/article/2174006/...
Well sure that's a start. But is 14% abnormal? I legit don't know. I tried to find out just now and ended up on this wikipedia article. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_percentag... This data set has a lot of N/A in it. I end up relying on the CIA estimate for basically all of them because no other column has data. Just for the sake of fair (albeit unscientific comparison) I'm picking out the stats…
Without all the facts, mainlanders will never be in a clear position to make a proper decision. That's how the system is designed.
To be fair, even with the facts I doubt the average person would ever be well-informed enough to make a proper decision. Governing should be a full time job done by professionals. Imagine if Apple were run by its users...
Without all the facts, mainlanders will never be in a clear position to make a proper decision. That's how the system is designed.
Isn't this exactly the point of view that the article is arguing against?