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Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

nytimes.com

251–260 of 372 posts

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#251
post #44

"Theft of trade secrets" is how Silicon Valley was built. Fairchild was "theft of trade secrets" from Shockley; Intel was "theft of trade secrets" from Fairchild. When Camenzind left Signetics and designed the 555 (under contract to Signetics), he was "using trade secrets" of Signetics; in today's legal environment, they could have just ordered him to stick around as an employee and work on a less risky project. MOST…

Lawyers and investors provide pathways to the market that allow engineers to build things that have actual value. The idea that engineers like you and I hold all of the tools and training to "create wealth" is too dismissive of those professions.

As a engineer who moved to the "other side" I used to think that now I understand how easy engineers have it.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#252
post #53

The level of greed, hubris and stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me. Levandowski was paid a bonus of $120 million while at Google, which is more money than any reasonable person will need for several lifetimes. This was actually a running joke at Google (while I was still there) to describe $120M as "1 Levadownski". Like Sundar one year was described as earning "only 1.7 Levadownskis" (he got paid $200M…

They gave him 120 million and he still left and stole. Smh thats just. Wow. What more did he want?

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#253
post #53

The level of greed, hubris and stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me. Levandowski was paid a bonus of $120 million while at Google, which is more money than any reasonable person will need for several lifetimes. This was actually a running joke at Google (while I was still there) to describe $120M as "1 Levadownski". Like Sundar one year was described as earning "only 1.7 Levadownskis" (he got paid $200M…

Perhaps he's innocent?

FBI has a 93% conviction rate. He may be but hes going down.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So this movement toward resolving such conflicts in the courts, instead of by companies competing to out-innovate one another, is very troubling. A lot of the things you cite were actually fought out in the courts. Motorola sued MOS Technology [1]. AMD and Intel have been in constant legal battles since their inception. The complicated question of Unix ownership started the famous SCO-Linux litigation. This isn't a…

> The complicated question of Unix ownership started the famous SCO-Linux litigation. This isn't anything new. Just a bit correction there. SCO-Linux litigation is pretty contemporary. Way back before then, there was the System-V vs BSD "Unix wars" ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_wars ) SCO-Linux litigation was just the SCO assholes wanting to get a piece of the pie when they were dying out.

Unfortunately Sun won the System-V vs BSD "Unix wars", and then uni(x)laterally capitulated to AT&T.

The Day SunOS Died

    "Bye, bye, SunOS 4.1.3!
    ATT System V has replaced BSD.
    You can cling to the standards of the industry
    But only if you pay the right fee -- 
    Only if you pay the right fee . . ."
http://www.poppyfields.net/filks/00070.html

For context, the guy who wrote "The Worst Job in the World" email was Michael Tiemann, one of "open source's great explainers." ;) Now he's pranking IBM executives by installing RedHat Enterprise Linux on their mainframes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Tiemann

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#255
post #44

"Theft of trade secrets" is how Silicon Valley was built. Fairchild was "theft of trade secrets" from Shockley; Intel was "theft of trade secrets" from Fairchild. When Camenzind left Signetics and designed the 555 (under contract to Signetics), he was "using trade secrets" of Signetics; in today's legal environment, they could have just ordered him to stick around as an employee and work on a less risky project. MOST…

"The indictment alleges that in the months before his departure, Levandowski downloaded from secure Google repositories numerous engineering, manufacturing, and business files related to Google’s custom LiDAR and self-driving car technology. The files downloaded included circuit board schematics, instructions for installing and testing LiDAR, and an internal tracking document. The indictment also alleges that at the time he took the files, Levandowski was involved with two companies competing with Google in the self-driving space: Tyto LiDAR LLC and 280 Systems, Inc., the latter of which would become Ottomotto. Ottomotto acquired Tyto in May 2016, shortly after Uber Technologies, Inc. agreed to acquire Ottomotto and hire Levandowski."

This is definitely not how Silicon Valley was built. People moved around (and still do) with the knowledge in their heads, not with proprietary data and backroom deals.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#256

Why did reporters keep calling Levandowski an engineer? He's really not, at least not for quite a number of years. Anyway, Levandowski was a lousy leader, and was really detrimental to Uber's ATG. He bloated ATG from fewer than 100 people to more than 2000 within less than a year, without paying the slightest attention to culture. As a result, the number of people grossly exceeded the quantity of work. Political infi…

>It's sickening to even think about what he did in Uber.

Uber's leadership and corporate culture were toxic and ethically dubious long before Levandowski came along. It seems to me like he fit right in. No wonder Uber bet so much on that guy.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

P.S., Levandowski caused similar drama when he was in Google's self-driving car division too, per the book Autonomy by Lawrence D Burns.

It's baffling to me how everyone seems to hate the guy and say he was a terrible leader, employee, and person, and yet companies seemed to have been valuing him like a diamond. How did that work? Is he just good at duping and persuading and sweet-talking people? Does he have some past accomplishments that were respectable? Does he have some insight into autonomous driving no one else has? Why would Google and Uber be…

He was on the Berkeley team for the original DARPA Grand Challenge. Their team was notable for being a motorcycle while everyone else used a car, the complexity of using a motorcycle earned them big points with the higher-ups even though the bike didn't do very well on the course.

So if you were a CEO looking to hire a senior guy for autonomous vehicles, he was one of the most senior in years of experience, pretty much nobody was working on autonomous vehicles prior to the Grand Challenge.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#259
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lawyers and investors provide pathways to the market that allow engineers to build things that have actual value. The idea that engineers like you and I hold all of the tools and training to "create wealth" is too dismissive of those professions.

Yes, the truth is more nuanced: production is a collective endeavor that requires knowledge, energy, raw materials, labor, and capital equipment. Here in Argentina, the government is still in the hands of landowners, who control the raw materials, just like in the medieval feudal system. The US, on the other hand, is largely run by investors, whose access to capital to invest in capital equipment was the crucial limi…

I've been fortunate to know good lawyers that have made my life easier, reduced the stress of dealing with hard situations. I've seen investors take chances on long shots that succeed, and wouldn't have had any hope without that investor help. I've had excellent managers (and some not so good) that championed my professional development and growth and took care of details that made it easier for me to focus on my core work. You're pointing at the worst parts of things and using those extremes to say they're not necessary. I see this view a lot on HN: Engineer == Good because they produce easily tangible output, and those with less tangible output == Bad.

These professions with less tangible output aren't zero sum. They're the necessary infrastructure of massive organizations, large projects, civilization itself. Calling them zero sum is sort of like saying pipes are zero sum because they just take water from one place and put it in another. It's a bit more complex than that.

Society has to have rules. Society is big, there are lots of domains. There need to be experts that understand those rules and help lay-folk navigate them. That's lawyers. Some are awful, do bad things, make things worse, we produce more of them than necessary, but civilization doesn't really work without them.

Similarly, the economy is huge. Allocation of capital requires people to oversee that process. There's your investors. Many are awful and greedy, but it's a necessary process unless/until we find more efficient ways of allocating capital-- And while programming itself is not capital intensive from the equipment perspective, it is from the "human capital" perspective. The burn rates of many startups will show just how intensive. Again, investors are "plumbing". They're positive sum because the entire system, which is positive sum, requires them to function.

Large projects have lots of moving pieces. At some scales, it's near impossible for a single person to have it all in their head, much less focus on a full time programming job while they're at it. All the moving pieces require coordination. Integration into the non-programming parts of a company require coordination. Managers do this. Plenty are mediocre at it. Others play power games. Some make things worse. But overall the system wouldn't function without them.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't know why your original comment was down voted, but I'll tell you why I down voted this comment: the site rules say not to complain about downvotes. This isn't reddit, these types of comments only clutter the conversation. Plus, your original comment is only 9 minutes old, perhaps wait a bit longer before complaining about downvotes ;)

You have a lot of balls to break the site rules while saying that.

It didn't stop you. How many balls do you have?
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