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Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

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Re: Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

#91

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

rsync wrote: post #68
frank_nitti wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there really no difference between eating 1500 calories at once vs. over the course of 5 meals? Of course, there is no weight loss without a calorie deficit, but are all calorie deficits equivalent on magnitude alone? I struggle with the notion that the timing does not matter at all, and much of the suggested benefits of controlling the timing focus on other metrics beside immediate weight loss. The "wisdom" of th…

"Is there really no difference between eating 1500 calories at once vs. over the course of 5 meals?" Digestion - and the ramping up of your entire metabolic process - is not a minor task. It is an all-hands-on-deck marshaling of a number of bodily processes that preclude other processes that you might like your body to engage in. If you are firing up this mechanism every three hours - insulin response, spiking your b…

> then you never give your body time to do any other housekeeping tasks.

Do you have any links to describe what other tasks it would want to be doing in that time and which are blocked by an insulin spike?

Re: Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

#92

Post by dvt »

mikeklaas wrote: post #89
dvt wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My daily intake was 175g protein, 150g carbs, and 50g fats. To hit those macros reliably, egg whites for breakfast and chicken (or tuna) for dinner will quickly become a status quo :)

That's an insane macro ratio for most people, though. You don't need that much protein unless you're doing some intense weight training.

Not sure I'd call it insane. 5c:3.5p:1.5f is like the "standard" fat-loss macro ratio your average nutritionist would suggest[1]. Mine was a bit more aggressive, but not super out there.

[1] https://www.womenshealthmag.com/uk/food/healthy-eating/a7053...

Re: Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

#93

Post by Broken_Hippo »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #56
throwaway_law wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Even on fast days, make sure you take vitamins (I take Fish Oil, Zinc, a Multivitamin and Magnesium) I have done some fasting recently (water, some water/apple cider vinegar in the morning; coffee, green tea, Ooolong tea), and have a similar vitamin intake (B complex; calcium/D combo; Magnesium; Zinc; Iron; Fish Oil). During the fasting I don't take the Fish Oil, I haven't read anything about it specifically, but j…

In general with a good diet there is no need to continuously take vitamin supplements.

I have to take Vitamin D all year. I got really sick a year and a half ago due to low levels and wound up with some other issues that it triggered. Turns out, I have MS and the low vitamin D probably helped trigger a flare.

I literally cannot get enough Vitamin D in the winter: The days are short here in Norway and the sun isn't enough. Theoretically, I might be able to get it in the summer, but I really need to wear strong sunscreen since a medicine increases my skin cancer risk. The neurologist doesn't really want me to not take the supplements anyway.

My diet isn't bad. Mostly vegetarian, though I try to eat fish once a week and not otherwise completely devoid of animal products (dairy, for example). The rest of my bloodwork turns out OK.

Re: Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

#94

Post by dvt »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #58
dvt wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did for a few months this year, but I've been lazy over the summer. I'm 155lb, 6'0, so fairly skinny, maybe at around ~15% BF. I noticed that fasting doesn't help with BF at all unless I eat very clean and lift. I was at 170lb, around ~28% BF earlier this year and had to work my ass off to get my body fat percentage down.

> I noticed that fasting doesn't help with BF at all unless I eat very clean and lift. So what happens? You lose muscle and fat in the same ratio? Or do you keep the fat?

I feel that my body kind of adjusts to the fasting and I just don't lose much of anything.

Re: Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

#95

Post by dvt »

pmart123 wrote: post #67
dvt wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did for a few months this year, but I've been lazy over the summer. I'm 155lb, 6'0, so fairly skinny, maybe at around ~15% BF. I noticed that fasting doesn't help with BF at all unless I eat very clean and lift. I was at 170lb, around ~28% BF earlier this year and had to work my ass off to get my body fat percentage down.

Interesting. I just started experimenting with a 16-8 fast, and I have noticed that it is hard to eat larger portions when you constrain the eating window to eight hours. Did you think it helped maintain your 15% BF?

> Did you think it helped maintain your 15% BF?

Nope.

I stopped counting macros and started eating just whatever again at the beginning of the summer and I'm slowly gaining the fat back. Unfortunately, there are no shortcuts (at least for me).

Re: Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

#97

Post by rsync »

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #91
rsync wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Is there really no difference between eating 1500 calories at once vs. over the course of 5 meals?" Digestion - and the ramping up of your entire metabolic process - is not a minor task. It is an all-hands-on-deck marshaling of a number of bodily processes that preclude other processes that you might like your body to engage in. If you are firing up this mechanism every three hours - insulin response, spiking your b…

> then you never give your body time to do any other housekeeping tasks. Do you have any links to describe what other tasks it would want to be doing in that time and which are blocked by an insulin spike?

https://osher.ucsf.edu/patient-care/integrative-medicine-res...

"...it is theorized that cancer cells do not respond to the protective signals generated by fasting, thus leaving them vulnerable to both the immune system and cancer treatment. This process is known as differential stress resistance (DSR). Short-term starvation (STS), fasting for 48 hours, causes a rapid switch of cells to a protected mode, which is capable of protecting mammalian cells and mice from various toxins, including chemotherapy."

(et. al)

I read it as cleanup/housekeeping tasks that aren't high priority, relative to processing food inputs. When freed from those tasks, the body can concentrate on housekeeping.

Re: Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

#98

Post by proc0 »

I've been fasting weekly for a long time (after starting with intermittent fasting). I'm glad to see an article like this because I've been waiting to try fasting every other day. My subjective observation is that there is a misconception of what the body does with nutrients and that is why in general people won't think of even trying to fast ever.

To use contrasting analogies, it seems in general the perception is that the body works like a car and you have to re-fuel it every few hours in order to keep going. However, from my experience I think the body is more like a factory that creates its own energy. It needs materials, from which a part is used for energy, but thanks to having storage, you have plenty of supplies to keep going until the next shipment of resources arrive. In other words, fuel is burned in proportion to the user of the car, but factories don't necessarily use their materials as soon as it receives the shipment. Factories can store resources and their use is scheduled for a later use.

Therefore it is better to optimize for quality of materials, rather than frequency of consumption! Your body will use the materials it gathered from the past few days of consuming food (no citation here, but again just my experience), and the only problem of not eating is the BRAIN's expectation of eating food every day and that feeling of satiation, which is basically a hit of dopamine and not a true sign of wether you need materials and/or energy to survive.

Re: Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

#99

Post by SwellJoe »

core-questions wrote: post #73
SwellJoe wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've seen a lot of people say stuff like this, but it's kinda gross. If you want to criticize things someone has said about their diet and health practices, that's fine (and hopefully, you'll cite sources for why they're wrong), but if you're going to make it about how they look, and make your own diagnosis about their health, that's not really OK. You don't know anything about the guy's health. He may actually be si…

> that's not really OK. This kind of word policing is even less OK. It's not "gross" to make a comment about something you see and have opinions about, especially for a public figure. You're not shedding light on any subject, either, all you're doing is being offended-on-behalf of someone else; the world's got enough of that and it doesn't seem to be making any positive difference at all.

The comment I responded to did not add substantively to the discussion, and I pointed out why.

I am not "policing" anything. I have no power to arrest someone or censor someone for being an asshole online. I expressed an opinion about the kind of community I'd like to be a part of. Also, it seems like you're doing what you're criticizing me for. I don't think the world's got enough of minding one's own damned business regarding people's health, body, and appearance, and that having more of it would make a positive difference. This conversation is about the science of fasting, not whether Jack Dorsey looks thin.

Re: Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

#100

Post by crimsonalucard »

If I eat two meals in one sitting and then wait 23 hours before my next meal is this a form of intermittent fasting? I still get the same amount of calories as a normal person but there's a long period where I get nothing.

(I've been skipping breakfast my entire life so I don't really get the 3 meal thing.)

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