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Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

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Re: Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

#51

Post by bradhoffman »

dvt wrote: post #46
torben-friis wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you fit? as in, do you lift weights or are active in sports that require strength? I ask because I wonder about the effects of extended fasts on muscle loss/retention, a big problem cutting weight for some people is that they get rid of some muscle mass along with the calories they wanted to eliminate.

I did for a few months this year, but I've been lazy over the summer. I'm 155lb, 6'0, so fairly skinny, maybe at around ~15% BF. I noticed that fasting doesn't help with BF at all unless I eat very clean and lift. I was at 170lb, around ~28% BF earlier this year and had to work my ass off to get my body fat percentage down.

Lifting specifically, or any sort of physical activity? I’ve been running and IF for the past month in order to cut my BF %. I was at about 16%, but I’d like to get down to 12%.

Re: Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

#52

Post by frank_nitti »

rtkwe wrote: post #47
davinic wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wondered this as well. In many of the intermittent fasting studies they kept caloric intake the same and showed that the benefits applied even when taking caloric restriction out of the equation.

A lot of diets, especially IF style diets, are pretty much just tricks to get you to eat less calorie wise. Intermittent fasting does this by just setting the simple rule, only eat during a relatively small window of time. It's easier to eat less during that period because there's only so much you can comfortably eat in that time. (Granted you can totally fit a whole day's intake in the IF period but it's harder).

Is there really no difference between eating 1500 calories at once vs. over the course of 5 meals?

Of course, there is no weight loss without a calorie deficit, but are all calorie deficits equivalent on magnitude alone? I struggle with the notion that the timing does not matter at all, and much of the suggested benefits of controlling the timing focus on other metrics beside immediate weight loss.

The "wisdom" of the late 90s was that six or so small meals were better than one large meal, with respect to weight loss. Now it appears some experts would argue the opposite. Is it all just a bunch of smoke and mirrors over calories in > calories out?

Re: Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

#53

Post by getpost »

najarvg wrote: post #36
travbrack wrote: post #23

Does this increase risk of gallstones?

Yes it does. See - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20813736

>..."might increase the risk of gallstone disease"...

I do 18:6 intermittent fasting and I did have a gallstone episode. My intuition is that fasting precipitated the expulsion of stones that had formed prior to the onset of my fasting regimen. Also, while practicing intermittent fasting, I think I have a tendency to overeat during my main meal of the day, maybe as a subconscious attempt to avoid feeling hungry later on. To avoid overeating, I need to be mindful to stop eating while I still feel slightly hungry.

The following blog post is consistent with my experience: https://gallstonesdiet.net/can-intermittent-fasting-cause-ga...

Re: Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

#54

Post by dvt »

bradhoffman wrote: post #51
dvt wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did for a few months this year, but I've been lazy over the summer. I'm 155lb, 6'0, so fairly skinny, maybe at around ~15% BF. I noticed that fasting doesn't help with BF at all unless I eat very clean and lift. I was at 170lb, around ~28% BF earlier this year and had to work my ass off to get my body fat percentage down.

Lifting specifically, or any sort of physical activity? I’ve been running and IF for the past month in order to cut my BF %. I was at about 16%, but I’d like to get down to 12%.

Lifting; I did Stronglifts 5x5 3 times a week. Part of the reason I stopped is that it got kind of boring and I got absolutely sick of doing squats 3 times a week.

It sucked, it was hard (especially on a caloric deficit), but it worked.

Re: Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

#55

Post by dragonwriter »

frank_nitti wrote: post #52
rtkwe wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of diets, especially IF style diets, are pretty much just tricks to get you to eat less calorie wise. Intermittent fasting does this by just setting the simple rule, only eat during a relatively small window of time. It's easier to eat less during that period because there's only so much you can comfortably eat in that time. (Granted you can totally fit a whole day's intake in the IF period but it's harder).

Is there really no difference between eating 1500 calories at once vs. over the course of 5 meals? Of course, there is no weight loss without a calorie deficit, but are all calorie deficits equivalent on magnitude alone? I struggle with the notion that the timing does not matter at all, and much of the suggested benefits of controlling the timing focus on other metrics beside immediate weight loss. The "wisdom" of th…

> The "wisdom" of the late 90s was that six or so small meals were better than one large meal, with respect to weight loss.

Note that this was a fairly direct application of advice to diabetics on glucose control translated out of it's original context.

Re: Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

#56

Post by mytailorisrich »

throwaway_law wrote: post #40
dvt wrote: post #17

I fast, on average, once a week. At least once a month, I try to do an extended fast (2-5 days) to force ketosis. I also do intermittent fasting basically daily (I only eat between 12-8). Been doing this for about 4 years now. Some anecdata: - Fasting > 24 hrs paradoxically gives you an extreme boost of energy and mental focus. I especially love how my olfactory sense is extremely heightened. It's pretty cool and eve…

- Even on fast days, make sure you take vitamins (I take Fish Oil, Zinc, a Multivitamin and Magnesium) I have done some fasting recently (water, some water/apple cider vinegar in the morning; coffee, green tea, Ooolong tea), and have a similar vitamin intake (B complex; calcium/D combo; Magnesium; Zinc; Iron; Fish Oil). During the fasting I don't take the Fish Oil, I haven't read anything about it specifically, but j…

In general with a good diet there is no need to continuously take vitamin supplements.

Re: Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

#57

Post by dmd149 »

Been doing intermittent fasting for a long time now and have been doing ADF for the last few months.

I lost fat and retained lean muscle while - eating between 3000-6000 calories on eating days - running 30-35 miles per week - weight lifting 3x per week

Here is a reddit post about my progress with some documentation including pics of recent DEXA scans.

https://www.reddit.com/r/leangains/comments/cliuqk/been_prac...

Re: Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

#58

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

dvt wrote: post #46
torben-friis wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you fit? as in, do you lift weights or are active in sports that require strength? I ask because I wonder about the effects of extended fasts on muscle loss/retention, a big problem cutting weight for some people is that they get rid of some muscle mass along with the calories they wanted to eliminate.

I did for a few months this year, but I've been lazy over the summer. I'm 155lb, 6'0, so fairly skinny, maybe at around ~15% BF. I noticed that fasting doesn't help with BF at all unless I eat very clean and lift. I was at 170lb, around ~28% BF earlier this year and had to work my ass off to get my body fat percentage down.

> I noticed that fasting doesn't help with BF at all unless I eat very clean and lift.

So what happens? You lose muscle and fat in the same ratio? Or do you keep the fat?

Re: Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

#59

Post by pizza234 »

torben-friis wrote: post #35
dvt wrote: post #17

I fast, on average, once a week. At least once a month, I try to do an extended fast (2-5 days) to force ketosis. I also do intermittent fasting basically daily (I only eat between 12-8). Been doing this for about 4 years now. Some anecdata: - Fasting > 24 hrs paradoxically gives you an extreme boost of energy and mental focus. I especially love how my olfactory sense is extremely heightened. It's pretty cool and eve…

Are you fit? as in, do you lift weights or are active in sports that require strength? I ask because I wonder about the effects of extended fasts on muscle loss/retention, a big problem cutting weight for some people is that they get rid of some muscle mass along with the calories they wanted to eliminate.

I'm personally very skeptical [as well]. I notice that almost nobody that recounts their fasting experience ever mentions sport.

I personally found very hard already to progress on weightlifting during diet cycles, as I need to cut on volume significantly; can't imagine to do that while fasting, unless fasting would "flip a switch" in how the (my) body works, which I doubt.

Re: Alternate Day Fasting Improves Physiological and Molecular Markers of Aging [pdf]

#60

Post by defertoreptar »

frank_nitti wrote: post #52
rtkwe wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of diets, especially IF style diets, are pretty much just tricks to get you to eat less calorie wise. Intermittent fasting does this by just setting the simple rule, only eat during a relatively small window of time. It's easier to eat less during that period because there's only so much you can comfortably eat in that time. (Granted you can totally fit a whole day's intake in the IF period but it's harder).

Is there really no difference between eating 1500 calories at once vs. over the course of 5 meals? Of course, there is no weight loss without a calorie deficit, but are all calorie deficits equivalent on magnitude alone? I struggle with the notion that the timing does not matter at all, and much of the suggested benefits of controlling the timing focus on other metrics beside immediate weight loss. The "wisdom" of th…

> The "wisdom" of the late 90s was that six or so small meals were better than one large meal, with respect to weight loss. Now it appears some experts would argue the opposite. Is it all just a bunch of smoke and mirrors over calories in > calories out?

Too true. It was trendy as recently as a decade ago to eat many small meals and frequently "to keep your metabolism high." What no one was acknowledging was how the study that showed the relationship between fasting and metabolism had participants basically starve themselves for an extended length of time.

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