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Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

nytimes.com

111–120 of 372 posts

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#112
post #53

The level of greed, hubris and stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me. Levandowski was paid a bonus of $120 million while at Google, which is more money than any reasonable person will need for several lifetimes. This was actually a running joke at Google (while I was still there) to describe $120M as "1 Levadownski". Like Sundar one year was described as earning "only 1.7 Levadownskis" (he got paid $200M…

Perhaps he's innocent?

> Perhaps he's innocent?

Perhaps.

However, one of the ways prosecutor maintain a 95%+ conviction rate is to only pursue cases they are extremely confident they could win in court. And sure, just because someone loses in court or pleas out doesn't mean they are actually guilty, but it's the best system we have.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#113
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

certainly. but the logical conclusion redefines 'severance' to mean leaving my head at the door on the way out. trying to clearly define what exactly are ideas owned by the employer has to fail on principle. especially when you consider that even a new grad is being hired with the expectation that they are bringing ideas and techniques to bear that they developed someplace else.

> but the logical conclusion redefines 'severance' to mean leaving my head at the door on the way out. Or just leaving the industry, or lifetime employment with a single company — hardly unthinkable; in fact, it was the rule in the US within living memory, and I've worked at companies where the majority of engineers were lifers. This would be a very favorable outcome for investors in your company: they get the fruits…

> It's not such a favorable outcome for engineers

It's a favorable outcome for people who want stability. There is huge value in knowing that you're not going to get fired unless you do something actively malicious.

Some people aren't interested in climbing, have poor interviewing skills, and don't want to deal with the cognitive overhead of learning a different company's tech stack every two years. Plus, most companies tie vacation time to seniority, so being able to stay at a company for 10+ years means you'll get to have four weeks of vacation every year, while people who switch jobs every two years will always be stuck at two.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But his former employer is no different as Google blatantly steals IP themselves and gets caught in the process! See this popular HN thread https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18566929 You want to see him strung up for ripping off a company whose does the same thing and he probably witnessed and was taught to do it there(directly or indirectly).

Hmm no one answers why they are down voting something on topic here. Those who downvote this are doing so because You don't believe Google does exactly what Anthony did? That Google is a company who does no evil? What I'm saying is relevant and truthful and as noted clearly well documented!

Don't know why your original comment was down voted, but I'll tell you why I down voted this comment: the site rules say not to complain about downvotes. This isn't reddit, these types of comments only clutter the conversation. Plus, your original comment is only 9 minutes old, perhaps wait a bit longer before complaining about downvotes ;)

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#115
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

levandowski never liked when rules got in the way of progress. his attitude was "whatever it takes to birth self-driving cars".

>never liked when rules got in the way of progress. Yes, that seems to be the Silicon Valley Culture. "Move fast and break things" "Its better to apologize and seek forgiveness, than ask for permission" "Though the most successful founders are usually good people, they tend to have a piratical gleam in their eye. They're not Goody Two-Shoes type good. Morally, they care about getting the big questions right, but not…

"It's easier to ask forgiveness than it is to get permission" is actually a Grace Hopper quote, so not Silicon Valley. Depending on the circumstances, it can be good advice.

And "move fast and break things" was about code, not about the world at large. It's a coding "philosophy" for getting shit done, that worked very well for Facebook and did not actually harm people.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#117
post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot more problems with Musk's conduct than a few tweets. Just yesterday there was a post on the front page of HN effectively accusing him of nepotism and saving his family's dying business and merging it with Tesla. There is still a lot of controversy over the marketing/state of Autopilot. There are whistle blowers claiming unsafe working conditions at Tesla and Musk censoring/firing anyone who is pro uni…

What does that have to do with Anthony getting arrested? I wasn't comparing how controversial they are on Twitter. So far the worst thing that has happened to Musk legally is some dropped SEC charges and new controls for one of his companies. The Solarcity deal isn't being investigated by authorities and was approved by 85% of shareholders in 2016, where its connection to his cousins was well known. Otherwise none of…

> People have such an impetus for Musk's downfall but a few off colour or poorly thought out tweets is nothing compared to...

I thought we were talking about questionable characteristics of these people and how it might lead to their downfall. I could easily see Elon Musk get sued for unsafe working conditions from years ago, or a fraudulent claim about Autopilot's capability, or for libel by attacking people unnecessarily on twitter (accusing a diver of being a pedophile is pretty fucking weird).

I remember talking to extremely well-paid lawyers in the industry before the Alphabet vs. Uber case saying there was nothing they could do to Levandowski. Let's circle back in 5 years and see how Musk is doing then.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#118
post #68

Can someone explain the difference between this situation and the following situation: - engineer at Company A has expertise in a certain field, and is really, really good at solving problems in this field and knowing what to do next at any point in time. They bring quality to Company A's systems. - engineer moves to Company B to do the same kind of work, and uses their expertise to bring Company B's systems up to hi…

The indictment[1] sheds some light on the difference: "On or about December 11,2015, he downloaded approximately 14,000 files from SVN. These files contained critical engineering information about the hardware used on Project Chauffeur self-driving vehicles, including schematics for the printed circuit boards used in various custom LiDAR products."

In other words, the accusation is that he stole technology that was the output of the entire Project Chauffeur team, not simply stuff of his own creation. Presumably, those materials were non-trivial and represent the combined effort of many engineers over many years.

Imagine you're toiling on a team for years and your absurdly compensated boss decides they want the whole pie, clones the repo their laptop, and dips out to found their own start up based on everyone's work.

[1] https://www.justice.gov/usao-ndca/press-release/file/1197991...

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#119
post #44

"Theft of trade secrets" is how Silicon Valley was built. Fairchild was "theft of trade secrets" from Shockley; Intel was "theft of trade secrets" from Fairchild. When Camenzind left Signetics and designed the 555 (under contract to Signetics), he was "using trade secrets" of Signetics; in today's legal environment, they could have just ordered him to stick around as an employee and work on a less risky project. MOST…

Lawyers and investors provide pathways to the market that allow engineers to build things that have actual value. The idea that engineers like you and I hold all of the tools and training to "create wealth" is too dismissive of those professions.

Yes, the truth is more nuanced: production is a collective endeavor that requires knowledge, energy, raw materials, labor, and capital equipment. Here in Argentina, the government is still in the hands of landowners, who control the raw materials, just like in the medieval feudal system. The US, on the other hand, is largely run by investors, whose access to capital to invest in capital equipment was the crucial limiting resource in the 19th and 20th centuries.

The difference is that capital equipment is not the crucial limiting resource for programming, or even for building self-driving cars.

Consider a steelworker: perhaps he earns US$80,000 a year, but he is operating two million dollars' worth of steel mill. (More accurately, a hundred steelworkers are collectively operating a steel mill worth two hundred million dollars.) If he (and his coworkers) were to save 10% of their salaries, they could build their own steel mill after 250 years. It's understandable that in such a situation most of the bargaining power is with the investor.

Contrast that with our situation. A typical salary in our profession is US$150,000 per year. A nice laptop costs US$2000. A nice rackmount server, even if you can't be satisfied with a VPS, might cost US$500. (And I used to host my website on dialup in my house, and cable modem connections today are a hundred times faster than colocated data-center bandwidth was 20 years ago.) This is two months of savings, not 250 years. So we have a lot more bargaining power, and that's one reason we're able to demand so much more money than the steelworker.

This is a terrible situation for investors, or for that matter managers of big companies. They are left without bargaining power through ownership of capital goods; they therefore struggle to recapture that bargaining power by lobbying, litigation, and of course illegal wage-fixing conspiracies like the one Google was involved in a few years ago. Aside from its dismal implications for us as individuals, this development will discourage talented young people from going into engineering — law or management will be more lucrative.

Law is zero-sum: a case that one lawyer loses, another wins. Management is largely zero-sum, a popularity-contest game of corporate politics to obtain control over more of the company's short-term fixed pool of resources. Engineering is positive-sum: what one engineer produces, another can buiild off of.

So what does a country look like when its talented young people choose law or management over science, engineering, or medicine? René Favaloro commits suicide; young people idolize Maradona rather than Einstein, and play football rather than experimenting with chemistry sets or building ham radios; its nuclear fusion program is a fraud; it imports its computers from China, then does the last assembly step locally, in order to capture the windfall value of government protectionist measures designed to develop local industry; the talented young people who do go into science or engineering (including programming) usually emigrate, often to a country with better universities. Argentina has been this way for a century or more, and the US is starting to become this way, too.

But it's worth pointing out that, even in the middle of the 20th century, the US wasn't that way, and that's how Silicon Valley was able to exist in the first place.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#120
post #53

The level of greed, hubris and stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me. Levandowski was paid a bonus of $120 million while at Google, which is more money than any reasonable person will need for several lifetimes. This was actually a running joke at Google (while I was still there) to describe $120M as "1 Levadownski". Like Sundar one year was described as earning "only 1.7 Levadownskis" (he got paid $200M…

Unreal.
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