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Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

nytimes.com

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Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#51

Post by TheMagicHorsey »

kragen wrote: post #44

"Theft of trade secrets" is how Silicon Valley was built. Fairchild was "theft of trade secrets" from Shockley; Intel was "theft of trade secrets" from Fairchild. When Camenzind left Signetics and designed the 555 (under contract to Signetics), he was "using trade secrets" of Signetics; in today's legal environment, they could have just ordered him to stick around as an employee and work on a less risky project. MOST…

There's an element of truth in what you are saying. But in this case Lewendowski didn't build the stolen technology. He misappropriated the work of other engineers at Google.

It would be one thing if he just left with his own work. That would be more understandable.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#52

Post by paul7986 »

bksenior wrote: post #19
uuilly wrote: post #14

I used to work for Anthony at 510 systems. He tried to hire me for Otto as well. Watching this whole thing unfold from, obscure story in 2011 to the Waymo Vs. Uber trial to federal charges and national news is rather surreal. Anthony is one of the most creative, energetic thinkers I've ever encountered. If he stopped taking shortcuts he'd probably be the next Jobs or Musk.

Hah! Jobs and Musk are walking shortcuts. Anthony's biggest mistake is that he got caught by a corporation motivated to pursue.

A corporation (Google) who steals IP themselves. They steal from big fish to the little dreamers they inspired and such is well documented. See this popular HN thread... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18566929

I use to feel bad for Google and wanted this thief to face justice. But umm he's just doing what he witnessed and was taught(told) to do while working for the big G.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#53

Post by cletus »

The level of greed, hubris and stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me.

Levandowski was paid a bonus of $120 million while at Google, which is more money than any reasonable person will need for several lifetimes. This was actually a running joke at Google (while I was still there) to describe $120M as "1 Levadownski". Like Sundar one year was described as earning "only 1.7 Levadownskis" (he got paid $200M one year).

Why someone would risk jail time doing something so clearly wrong (taking material trade secrets from an employer) for even more money is just staggering to me. Even if he escapes prison time the stress and cost of a protracted criminal trial is huge. The loss of reputation is likely permanent.

I get why some high fliers have big egos and they privatize their success (even when pure dumb luck can be a huge factor). This is the hubris part. Right or wrong, that belief in your own abilities is almost a prerequisite for disruption.

The interesting part is how he "cheats". Like he clearly went to efforts to cover his tracks. Those aren't the actions of someone who felt they didn't do something questionable. So at this point, it's not about the hubris of the individual, it's about being perceived as being gifted, intelligent, a visionary and so on.

Honestly it makes me glad when such charlatan have their almost inevitable fall from grace.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#54

Post by jfim »

inlined wrote: post #35
throwaway_law wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>never liked when rules got in the way of progress. Yes, that seems to be the Silicon Valley Culture. "Move fast and break things" "Its better to apologize and seek forgiveness, than ask for permission" "Though the most successful founders are usually good people, they tend to have a piratical gleam in their eye. They're not Goody Two-Shoes type good. Morally, they care about getting the big questions right, but not…

I used to go back to my university and speak at the ethics class in my recruiting trips. I stopped after people’s questions changed to “Uber, Airbnb, etc all succeeded because they broke the law. Why are ethics important?” and I had no real answer.

They succeeded at building companies, but they also externalized a lot of issues. Tenants being evicted to turn rentals into Airbnb hotels, additional traffic in cities, jobs turning into precarious gigs, etc.

Ethics are important, because they change the criteria for decisions from being only dollars matter to "what's the right thing to do." A society full of ethically challenged dollar maximizers is not that good a place to be in.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#55

Post by tw04 »

kragen wrote: post #44

"Theft of trade secrets" is how Silicon Valley was built. Fairchild was "theft of trade secrets" from Shockley; Intel was "theft of trade secrets" from Fairchild. When Camenzind left Signetics and designed the 555 (under contract to Signetics), he was "using trade secrets" of Signetics; in today's legal environment, they could have just ordered him to stick around as an employee and work on a less risky project. MOST…

>Remember that "theft of trade secrets" is how Silicon Valley was built. Fairchild was "theft of trade secrets" from Shockley; Intel was "theft of trade secrets" from Fairchild. When Camenzind left Signetics and designed the 555 (under contract to Signetics), he was "using trade secrets" of Signetics

Do you have proof of this? Claiming all those companies were founded by people who stole confidential documentation from their previous employers is a pretty bold claim to make without evidence.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#56

Post by Judgmentality »

inlined wrote: post #35
throwaway_law wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>never liked when rules got in the way of progress. Yes, that seems to be the Silicon Valley Culture. "Move fast and break things" "Its better to apologize and seek forgiveness, than ask for permission" "Though the most successful founders are usually good people, they tend to have a piratical gleam in their eye. They're not Goody Two-Shoes type good. Morally, they care about getting the big questions right, but not…

I used to go back to my university and speak at the ethics class in my recruiting trips. I stopped after people’s questions changed to “Uber, Airbnb, etc all succeeded because they broke the law. Why are ethics important?” and I had no real answer.

Well, obviously this is a complicated subject, but if they're going to cherry-pick the offensive, you can cherry-pick the defensive. Theranos is an obvious counter-example where being unethical didn't really work out for anybody. uBeam will likely go the same route, and there are some other less well-known examples.

A much more interesting debate is directly between Uber and Lyft, because most people (even many investors) would argue the main difference was that the founders of Lyft weren't as morally reprehensible as Kalanick.

The sad reality is it seems like poor ethics is rewarded by those who know how to exploit it properly. What most people are really interested in is where is the line? Because let's be honest - most people aren't studying ethics in entrepreneurship because they care about ethics. Most people want to know what they can get away with and still get rich.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#57

Post by creato »

unscrupulous_sw wrote: post #39

> It is not uncommon for tech companies, which fiercely guard their intellectual property, to sue former employees or the firms they join after they leave. Is it really that common? I feel like most software engineers don't really take intellectual property all that seriously. Most will not think twice about backing up emails when leaving the company which might contain code diffs, design docs, etc. Friends from diff…

> I feel like most software engineers don't really take intellectual property all that seriously. Most will not think twice about backing up emails when leaving the company which might contain code diffs, design docs, etc.

You can't be serious. I would never think of doing this, and I can't imagine who would.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#58

Post by pslam »

uuilly wrote: post #14

I used to work for Anthony at 510 systems. He tried to hire me for Otto as well. Watching this whole thing unfold from, obscure story in 2011 to the Waymo Vs. Uber trial to federal charges and national news is rather surreal. Anthony is one of the most creative, energetic thinkers I've ever encountered. If he stopped taking shortcuts he'd probably be the next Jobs or Musk.

I have no idea about this guy, but in my experience, people like this always seem to be pleasant, creative types on the outside. Every now and then in conversation they hold weird viewpoints you just can't reconcile with their projected image, and wonder if you've misjudged them.

They usually turn out to have an underlying wonky or absent moral compass, and abusive personality traits.

The outward image is a confidence trick, and that's how they got where they are.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#59

Post by dmix »

Judgmentality wrote: post #37
dmix wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have such an impetus for Musk's downfall but a few off colour or poorly thought out tweets is nothing compared to something as criminal as downloading everything from your company before starting a competitor. Or worse while you work on the competitor on the side even before leaving the company. Anthony should have known that files are easily tracked in a place like Google and that he'd put a giant spotlight o…

There are a lot more problems with Musk's conduct than a few tweets. Just yesterday there was a post on the front page of HN effectively accusing him of nepotism and saving his family's dying business and merging it with Tesla. There is still a lot of controversy over the marketing/state of Autopilot. There are whistle blowers claiming unsafe working conditions at Tesla and Musk censoring/firing anyone who is pro uni…

What does that have to do with Anthony getting arrested? I wasn't comparing how controversial they are on Twitter.

So far the worst thing that has happened to Musk legally is some dropped SEC charges and new controls for one of his companies. The Solarcity deal isn't being investigated by authorities and was approved by 85% of shareholders in 2016, where its connection to his cousins was well known. Otherwise none of what you listed is illegal or in the same ballpark as what Anthony did.

Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets

#60

Post by kragen »

tw04 wrote: post #55
kragen wrote: post #44

"Theft of trade secrets" is how Silicon Valley was built. Fairchild was "theft of trade secrets" from Shockley; Intel was "theft of trade secrets" from Fairchild. When Camenzind left Signetics and designed the 555 (under contract to Signetics), he was "using trade secrets" of Signetics; in today's legal environment, they could have just ordered him to stick around as an employee and work on a less risky project. MOST…

>Remember that "theft of trade secrets" is how Silicon Valley was built. Fairchild was "theft of trade secrets" from Shockley; Intel was "theft of trade secrets" from Fairchild. When Camenzind left Signetics and designed the 555 (under contract to Signetics), he was "using trade secrets" of Signetics Do you have proof of this? Claiming all those companies were founded by people who stole confidential documentation fr…

They were the key engineers of those companies, which were (in the first two cases) the only ones in the industry at the time; their heads contained nothing but (what today we would call) "trade secrets".
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