I used to work for Anthony at 510 systems. He tried to hire me for Otto as well. Watching this whole thing unfold from, obscure story in 2011 to the Waymo Vs. Uber trial to federal charges and national news is rather surreal. Anthony is one of the most creative, energetic thinkers I've ever encountered. If he stopped taking shortcuts he'd probably be the next Jobs or Musk.
> If he stopped taking shortcuts he'd probably be the next Jobs or Musk. Didn't these ended up where they are by taking all kinds of shortcuts?
Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets
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Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets
#42Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
levandowski never liked when rules got in the way of progress. his attitude was "whatever it takes to birth self-driving cars".
>never liked when rules got in the way of progress. Yes, that seems to be the Silicon Valley Culture. "Move fast and break things" "Its better to apologize and seek forgiveness, than ask for permission" "Though the most successful founders are usually good people, they tend to have a piratical gleam in their eye. They're not Goody Two-Shoes type good. Morally, they care about getting the big questions right, but not…
...to them, and members of their immediate social class.
Which appears to be where Mr. Levandowski went wrong.
Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets
#44Fairchild was "theft of trade secrets" from Shockley; Intel was "theft of trade secrets" from Fairchild. When Camenzind left Signetics and designed the 555 (under contract to Signetics), he was "using trade secrets" of Signetics; in today's legal environment, they could have just ordered him to stick around as an employee and work on a less risky project. MOSTek was built out of "trade secrets" of Motorola. Unix was only released under a source licensing agreement, and for decades the Lions book, the bible for Unix kernel engineering, was illegal and could not be printed legally, because it contained "trade secrets" (and copyrighted code!) of AT&T. (Or, rather, Western Electric.) Indeed, economists have published a number of papers arguing that that California's prohibitions on non-compete agreements and on employer ownership of private work product underpinned the 1970s–1990s shift from Boston to Silicon Valley.
So this movement toward resolving such conflicts in the courts, instead of by companies competing to out-innovate one another, is very troubling. Investors, and in this case Google upper management, are killing the goose that laid the golden egg; they want to shift power from engineers, who make things, to lawyers and investors, who specialize in getting paid for them.
This is probably a major factor in the widely-observed shift of the center of innovation from Silicon Valley to Shenzhen, where shanzhai ("theft of trade secrets") is a way of life.
I live in a poor country which is poor mostly because the established economic powers are able to strangle new centers of wealth creation in the cradle, using the government and laws. Don't let that happen in your country.
Engineers create wealth. Lawyers and investors just compete to privatize it.
Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets
#45But I've also seen a few, rare bad apples. There are some people who are borderline sociopathic, who don't think twice about theft, misdirection, misappropriation of credit, and throwing co-workers under the bus for personal gain.
Usually, such people are not caught, and are not punished ... ever. People who learn about such sociopaths, just avoid them.
But sometimes these sociopaths go too far. This seems to be one such case.
This prosecution will discourage the very worst behavior and it will feel therapeutic for people that have felt victimized by various sociopaths who used them as ladders on the climb to fame and wealth ... but the less criminal kinds of sociopathy in the workplace is probably never going to go away. And there's no real way to stop it.
I haven't been to Google or worked with Google in a long time, but for a while there, say between 2010 and 2015, I felt like it was chock full of sociopaths in mid-level management. I don't even think Anthony would have stood out as particularly sociopathic in that environment.
Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets
#46Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets
#47Earlier quoted context omitted.
>never liked when rules got in the way of progress. Yes, that seems to be the Silicon Valley Culture. "Move fast and break things" "Its better to apologize and seek forgiveness, than ask for permission" "Though the most successful founders are usually good people, they tend to have a piratical gleam in their eye. They're not Goody Two-Shoes type good. Morally, they care about getting the big questions right, but not…
I used to go back to my university and speak at the ethics class in my recruiting trips. I stopped after people’s questions changed to “Uber, Airbnb, etc all succeeded because they broke the law. Why are ethics important?” and I had no real answer.
Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets
#48For more background, this New Yorker essay is useful. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2018/10/22/did-uber-steal...
Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets
#49Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sadly not an unusual attitude. I've known (and occasionally worked for) people who felt that rules were for chumps. Their reasoning was always a variation on; "winning is good", "chumps slow themselves down by following rules", "in your evaluation at the end of the year the bonuses go to 'winners' not losers." It is a rather narcissistic perhaps even sociopathic view of the world in my opinion, but it does exist.
Isn't that attitude what 'disruption' culture is all about? Find a business that takes forever because of regulation, then ignore the regulation, and profit? Uber, that's an example of this. AirBnB in a lot of instances, too, I think.
Re: Anthony Levandowski Charged with Theft of Trade Secrets
#50I used to work for Anthony at 510 systems. He tried to hire me for Otto as well. Watching this whole thing unfold from, obscure story in 2011 to the Waymo Vs. Uber trial to federal charges and national news is rather surreal. Anthony is one of the most creative, energetic thinkers I've ever encountered. If he stopped taking shortcuts he'd probably be the next Jobs or Musk.
It's one thing to own your own brain, it's another take 14K files, including circuit board designs and lidar designs. It's yet another to start using them at new-co that is a direct competitor to old-co. I'm by no means an IP fanatic, but that really does cross over to theft in my mind. But, on balance, the very specific details really matter here, so we'll see...