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RIP Bill Zeller

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Re: RIP Bill Zeller

#101

Post by buro9 »

edw519 wrote: post #48

Many thoughts that flashed through my mind as I read the suicide note, but I decided to file them all away and share only this old story: The old town drunk died. His two sons, the bank president and the new town drunk were at his funeral. An onlooker, surprised at how different the two sons were, asked each one how he turned out the way he did. The bank president responded, "With a father like that, how else could I…

Thank you. Just thank you.

Also carrying a shadow, and I tried to say what you've managed to say so well.

Also available for out-of-the-blue emails should anyone want to chat.

Re: RIP Bill Zeller

#103

Post by TheSOB88 »

edw519 wrote: post #48

Many thoughts that flashed through my mind as I read the suicide note, but I decided to file them all away and share only this old story: The old town drunk died. His two sons, the bank president and the new town drunk were at his funeral. An onlooker, surprised at how different the two sons were, asked each one how he turned out the way he did. The bank president responded, "With a father like that, how else could I…

An interesting note: filing your feelings away is what caused this whole thing. Of course, the ones you're filing away may not be as painful for you, but still.

Re: RIP Bill Zeller

#104

Post by billjings »

dasil003 wrote: post #89
billjings wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote this, then decided that you must be trolling and thought better of it. Then I thought better of thinking better of it... --- There's something that we need to understand about depression, suicidal depression: a depressed person can commit all their intellectual powers to rationalizing the awful feelings they have about themselves and the future. Someone sufficiently sharp can make an almost impenetrable cage…

Clearly from the letter your respecting his decision is of little consequence. He wrote the letter so that you might understand him, not so that you would approve. As for finding a reason where he is wrong, I'd say his dismissal of the counseling community was a bit swift because I know the difference between a good therapist and a bad therapist; but really that's beside the point. The bottom line isn't about the acc…

I'm not going to have an imaginary argument with a dead man here, nor do I mean to condemn him for what he did. I accept that it was a long, hard struggle, and that he lost. The only person who could have found a better solution was Mr. Zeller himself, and he has settled that question permanently.

Re: RIP Bill Zeller

#106

Post by scott_s »

2oi03i9fhujcnd wrote: post #83
mitsche82 wrote: post #52

A lot of this letter described what I felt like up until just a few months ago. I have also had experience with physical and emotional violence (no rape though) and felt absolutely worthless most of my life. One year ago I decided to seek out a therapist, which was one of the hardest things ever to do for me. Therapy has been painful at times, sometimes leaving me completely in shambles. But today I can say that I'm…

Bill wanted to tell someone, but only one person. The problem is that you can't tell one person because everyone has someone else that they will tell. Someone always has a higher allegiance to another than you. Maybe it is different for married people, but then we get a chicken and egg problem. How can you find a partner to marry when issues like this, kept secret, keep you from having a long-term relationship? He tr…

There is a 1 person, but it requires trust. And trust isn't beside the point, it's part of it. That trust is part of the intimacy involved in sharing a secret, and it is part of the bonding between two people. If you confide something that important to someone you care about, that may strengthen the relationship.

"How do you know? How do you really know you can trust me?"

"I don't. That's what trust is."

Re: RIP Bill Zeller

#107

Post by scott_s »

2oi03i9fhujcnd wrote: post #88
gphil wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to respond to your assertion that "he knows that doctors and counselors have allowances for when they can disclose information." This is true, but I think that it would be possible to find a counselor that would not disclose any information, even if they were technically allowed to do so. Furthermore, it seems possible to me that such secrets could be partially disclosed to a counselor in a way in which ther…

Thank you for your kind words. To understand where Bill is coming from you really need to hop into his shoes. He tried to trust people but they violated that trust. Regardless of the reasons for doing that, they didn't keep his secret. What he told them was much less important to him than his ultimate secret. If they can't keep those smaller secrets, why can they keep the big one? For better or worse all of the other…

People aren't linear functions. People treat information with the severity they think it has. So the notion that someone can't keep a "bigger" secret because they betrayed a smaller secret does not hold.

Re: RIP Bill Zeller

#108

Post by endtime »

zackattack wrote: post #79
kingsley_20 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great idea. Would you consider changing the "pit" part of the name?

I would consider it but I am skeptical that it would be a worthwhile change. E.g. Something like "CompassionPlane" might promote more of a sense of equality but it also negates the dark truths that, if more readily confronted, would perhaps have helped certain people avoid the "pit" they are in. When you are feeling awful it does not help to pretend otherwise. You are truly feeling awful and not resisting it is the f…

I agree with Kingsley. "Pit" is a very depressing word, more likely to conjure up images of the doldrums than of compassion.

Re: RIP Bill Zeller

#109

Post by talleyrand »

nickl wrote: post #58

I think he should have joined doctors without borders, peace corps or whatever it is called, or one of those Christian mission (even though he had a problem with Christians) . He may have found peace in helping those who suffered more then him

Suicide is fine, if your parents are dead, you have no children or no spouse. Have at it.

Re: RIP Bill Zeller

#110

Post by danielharan »

flipside wrote: post #29

As someone who once planned to take a secret to my grave, this whole thing saddens me. I was luckier in a way that altered the course of my life, I let slip to a friend in college that I had a secret. I had no intention of telling him of course, but then he went ahead listing dozens and dozens of possible secrets until he skipped over mine. So I took a chance and I told him and he accepted me. Looking back, that was…

A good reminder to be attentive. Thank you.
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