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Credit cards have a privacy problem

washingtonpost.com

11–20 of 178 posts

Re: Credit cards have a privacy problem

#11
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's only like 2%. Why still keep around people who are clearly taking advantage of higher rates of cash back like 5% and not paying anything in interest though? What's the benefit of keeping them as customers?

It's closer to 3%, and I don't think there's a way to beat that on the cash back except on a per category basis. Also, a lot of folks end up carrying a balance in spite of their best intentions. I suspect this happens relatively often even for folks with a long history of not doing so - e.g. maybe you get fired for the first time and start running up a balance, not long before you've run up some significant interest…

It's around 2% https://www.valuepenguin.com/what-credit-card-processing-fee...

And then there's huge credit card bonuses like $150 for Chase Freedom which is like $7.5k of spending's worth...

But again, that doesn't really answer my question. I very much realize lots of people do pay interest. But there are also people who don't, and possibly never have, for many years. I'm asking why do they keep those people around as customers if they're literally losing money on them? To me the obvious answer is they're still bringing value, and the only realistic form that can take as I see it seems to be their transaction data.

Re: Credit cards have a privacy problem

#12
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But that's only like 2%. Why still keep around people who are clearly taking advantage of higher rates of cash back like 5% and not paying anything in interest though? What's the benefit of keeping them as customers?

You also end up spending more, apparently--12 to 20% more. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MFkBoXhl5SU

They keep around customers who operate at losses for them because then they spend more? So they want these customers to operate at even larger losses?

Re: Credit cards have a privacy problem

#13

While I do love me some privacy.com, unfortunately they only allow you to tie payments to bank accounts, not credit cards. So, it's a virtual debit card, not a virtual credit card. Now, they do let you set transaction limits, and daily/weekly/monthly limits, as well as either locking the card to the first merchant to use it or to make it a "burner" one-time only card. So, there's lots of additional controls there. Th…

In regards to privacy.com in my opinion, it would be very, very unwise to trust any venture capital funded startup to protect your privacy. What happens when their investors decide they aren't monetizing fast enough. They are sitting on a lot a private data that other companies would love to get their hands on. What is the downside to them of selling your information, and making a big exit, that left the founders wealthy?

I would trust Apple a lot more since they already make money, and their reputation is something that they would be more likely to value more than a startup would be.

Re: Credit cards have a privacy problem

#14
post #3

Will leave these here, just one small step to help you regain your privacy: * https://marketingreportoptout.visa.com/OPTOUT/request.do * https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/about-mastercard/what-we-do/...

The Visa portal doesn't have very much information, can you explain what exactly I'm opting out of?

Re: Credit cards have a privacy problem

#15
post #3

Will leave these here, just one small step to help you regain your privacy: * https://marketingreportoptout.visa.com/OPTOUT/request.do * https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/about-mastercard/what-we-do/...

Did anyone else notice Mastercard's easily breakable captcha? It's just unmodified text with the same noise filter added to all codes.

Perhaps there's opportunity here for someone to be Robinhood here and improve the privacy of a lot of people...

Re: Credit cards have a privacy problem

#16
post #14
post #3

Will leave these here, just one small step to help you regain your privacy: * https://marketingreportoptout.visa.com/OPTOUT/request.do * https://www.mastercard.us/en-us/about-mastercard/what-we-do/...

The Visa portal doesn't have very much information, can you explain what exactly I'm opting out of?

It's linked from here: https://bb.visa.com/legal/privacy-policy-opt-out.html

Re: Credit cards have a privacy problem

#17
post #4

I've always wondered: is the data the reason why credit card companies are willing to give cash back as high as 5% even to customers who carefully operate them at a clear loss for them?

Some of it's paid for by the merchants

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/personal-finance/04071...

> When merchants accept payment via credit card, they are required to pay a percentage of the transaction amount as a fee to the credit card company. If the cardholder has a participating cash back rewards program, the credit card issuer simply shares some of the merchant fees with the consumer

And some is paid by interest being paid by other customers

http://www.bos.frb.org/economic/ppdp/2010/ppdp1003.pdf

> Because credit card spending and rewards are positively correlated with household income, the payment instrument transfer also induces a regressive transfer from low-income to high-income households in general. On average, and after accounting for rewards paid to households by banks, the lowest-income household ($20,000 or less annually) pays $21 and the highest-income household ($150,000 or more annually) receives $750 every year

I also have a vague memory that some cards from the same issuer (mostly American Express) charge the merchants more for the higher-level cards, and prevent the merchant from treating those customers any differently. I can't find a source for that, but some starting points might be https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/economy/supreme-cour... and https://about.americanexpress.com/press-release/american-exp...

Re: Credit cards have a privacy problem

#19
post #4

I've always wondered: is the data the reason why credit card companies are willing to give cash back as high as 5% even to customers who carefully operate them at a clear loss for them?

Credit card issuers don't pay for the cash back, it's the merchant. The merchant's are charged a credit card transaction fee that includes a fixed/percent fee determined by the negotiated contract with their bank (the acquirer), a small fixed/percent interchange fee that goes to the credit card payment networks (Visa, MasterCard, etc.), and finally a fee to the credit card issuer that provided the credit card to the consumer.

The credit card issuer fees can be the worst because of these high reward credit cards.

I'm very aware of this when shopping at a local small business. I'll pay either in cash or with my debit card, because the credit card fees are seriously squeezing small merchants.

Re: Credit cards have a privacy problem

#20
>"We don't sell your data, we share it." -all the companies involved

Am I the only one thinking there might be some Clapper-level double-speak going on here? Why would these company share admittedly valuable data without being compensated?

A question for contract lawyers: can I sell something (say an API or quarterly report) that "incidentally" includes customer data and get away with saying I'm not "selling customer data"?

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