Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

latimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 202 posts

Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#111

Post by dsr_ »

drcode wrote: post #108
brandmeyer wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beef and hide are coupled goods. One cow produces about X kg of beef and Y m^2 of hide. If demand for beef is extra high, then it will depress the price of hide because the ratio in supply is roughly fixed between them. There are other examples in modern society. Chlorine and caustic soda are produced in strictly fixed ratios from NaCl salt and electricity. Extra demand for one will depress the price of the other. Th…

Why don't they just breed cows that are more spherical, to maximize the volume-to-surface-area ratio?

They're in the middle of that process.

https://www.beefmagazine.com/cow-calf/relationship-between-c...

"The amount of beef produced per cow has seen an 18% improvement over the past 20 years. The average cow size across all breeds is 1,390 lbs., with less than 100 lbs. separating the heaviest and lightest breeds."

Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#112

Post by petrocrat »

erikpukinskis wrote: post #49
efiecho wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why one should not make assumptions based on limited personal experience. We have eaten meat for thousands of years and most people will not stop doing that, just bcause it's currently fashionable to say you do not eat meat or have reduced consumption.

Calling something fashionable is just a cheap way to be dismissive. I’d respect you more if you stated openly which aspects of vegetarian efficiency, morality, pollution, health you think are nonsense. There are good arguments to be made there, but you’re hiding behind an empty insult.

The argument for omnivorianism that I find unassailable is that plowing which is required for annuals is actually worse for the environment than ruminant emissions. While utilizing perenials will require ruminants for a truly holistic agriculture that cycles all nutrients efficiently. So a Perennial plant base agriculture with ruminants to hlelp cycle nutrients is the best ag option available, so eating a few a of the ruminants as they age out of the cohort makes sense, and would be wasteful not to do so.

Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#113

Post by AdrianB1 »

bsder wrote: post #81
ngngngng wrote: post #55

I'm actually in the market for a leather jacket and boots right now, but I certainly haven't noticed prices going down at all. I'm finding leather jackets extremely difficult to shop for. Online advice is all over the place, and I want something to last a lifetime.

The article comments on that: high-end leather still has plenty of demand. What doesn't have demand is the secondary tier of leather. Basically, "let's bond this shitty leather with plastic" doesn't have any takers anymore.

Someone provided a link showing there are not just high end and low end leathers, but roughly 5 categories. The problem is the price for good leather clothes is astronomical, especially with the very low price of the materials, while the quality of low end is terrible and the middle of the market is completely missing.

Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#114

Post by AdrianB1 »

lwhalen wrote: post #47

Interesting. I suppose I'm one of the few holdouts who still love leather clothing (motorcycle jackets, you weirdos ;-)) and accessories (I have multiple Saddleback Leather bags, wallets, etc). I don't see those items getting cheaper any time soon, I guess that indicates their profit margins have gone through the roof in the interim.

As someone who loves a good quality leather belt (or wallet), I see the same situation in Europe. Probably not a US-specific problem, but a clothing industry problem (where they ask for insane prices and cut all the corners on quality).

Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#115

Post by AdrianB1 »

_bxg1 wrote: post #3

Americans are eating more beef than they have in a decade? That's really surprising; seems everyone I talk to - not just vegetarians - have started looking at beef as something to be indulged in only on occasion. I assume the climate impact is the main reason.

The population is also growing, even assuming everyone keeps the same eating habits it results in increased total consumption.

Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#116

Post by ghaff »

jbboehr wrote: post #107
xahrepap wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had a really awesome leather belt that I got when I was 15. I stopped wearing it when I was 30 because my weight finally out outgrew the belt. Still have it. It's no worse today than it was when I got it as a teen. I go through about a belt a year now. Because I always seem to end up with this crap you describe. Even if I try to avoid it. Guess I need to do a better job looking... Or just lose some weight so I can…

It's funny, I have a similar story: my mother bought me a leather belt as a child around 1995. It finally bit the dust a few years ago. I bought a belt from the same company (Land's End) and it barely lasted a year. Then my aunt got me one from Duluth Trading Company for Christmas. That was about two years ago and it's shown no signs of stopping yet.

Lands End used to be pretty much a go to for me. After all the Sears and private equity stuff that went on I became increasingly disillusioned with their quality. I still get clothing from them now and then but quality generally has gone downhill.

Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#117

Post by rexgallorum2 »

stonogo wrote: post #61

I'd be interested to know how much of this has to do with the dilution of the meaning of 'leather' in terms of consumer goods. The market is flooded with garbage products, which are produced by slicing a thin veneer of leather and gluing it to a plastic backing, which is then sold as "bonded leather." It's gotten so bad that full-grain leather products are exceedingly rare. Since 90% of "leather" products are such aw…

A few years ago, I bought a hand made leather wallet from a leatherworker in Germany. It has a beautiful patina now and is in perfect shape. Quality matters.

Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#118

Post by robohoe »

xahrepap wrote: post #67
stonogo wrote: post #61

I'd be interested to know how much of this has to do with the dilution of the meaning of 'leather' in terms of consumer goods. The market is flooded with garbage products, which are produced by slicing a thin veneer of leather and gluing it to a plastic backing, which is then sold as "bonded leather." It's gotten so bad that full-grain leather products are exceedingly rare. Since 90% of "leather" products are such aw…

I had a really awesome leather belt that I got when I was 15. I stopped wearing it when I was 30 because my weight finally out outgrew the belt. Still have it. It's no worse today than it was when I got it as a teen. I go through about a belt a year now. Because I always seem to end up with this crap you describe. Even if I try to avoid it. Guess I need to do a better job looking... Or just lose some weight so I can…

I recommend Hank’s Belts online. I bought two. First one with a blemish (that I can’t find) for half price and a regular one for full price. Both have lasted me 3+ years now.

Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#119

Post by jefftk »

bdowling wrote: post #50
gingabriska wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But shoes aren't priced for raw material used, they've brand value which fetches higher price which mostly has to do with social signaling.

That’s not true if you’re talking about well-made men’s dress shoes. In that market, the best shoes are the best entirely because of materials and workmanship. Brand mainly indicates the level of quality you should expect as a buyer. Also, the brand can’t serve much of a social signaling function because usually trademarks aren’t visible and designs are traditional.

That makes sense, but since you're mostly paying for expert labor, decreases in the cost of the raw materials won't affect the price much.

Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#120

Post by ValentineC »

cnst wrote: post #91
Clubber wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a grading system for leather. "Genuine" leather is a deceptive marketing term designed to sell shit leather as quality. https://joojoobs.com/leather-grades/

> https://joojoobs.com/leather-grades/ Thanks for this; I had no idea that Genuine Leather wasn't a good thing, but I did have my suspicions as so many products seem to use the designation where the quality doesn't seem to be there. Will be making sure to look for full-grain leather from now on (ironically, I thought that "Genuine" designation was better).

Adding on: I've been looking for wallet suggestions on Reddit, and chanced upon North Star Leather's posts on how "Grades of Leather" was made up for marketing purposes [1][2].

I think those articles, and his Reddit comments [3], are worth a read to get an insight into how leather workers see this.

[1] https://nstarleather.wordpress.com/2018/05/31/the-grades-of-...

[2] https://nstarleather.wordpress.com/2017/05/16/genuine-leathe...

[3] https://old.reddit.com/user/nstarleather/comments/

Post reply on HN