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America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

latimes.com

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Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#101

Post by Scoundreller »

brandmeyer wrote: post #59
matheweis wrote: post #7

“According to Hidenet, a leather markets research firm, a hide from a branded cow went for as little as $4 the week of July 15, down from as much as $81 just five years ago.” Wait, what? Consumer trends have shifted so radically in 5 years that even with a white hot economy leather prices have dropped by 20x?

Beef and hide are coupled goods. One cow produces about X kg of beef and Y m^2 of hide. If demand for beef is extra high, then it will depress the price of hide because the ratio in supply is roughly fixed between them. There are other examples in modern society. Chlorine and caustic soda are produced in strictly fixed ratios from NaCl salt and electricity. Extra demand for one will depress the price of the other. Th…

> Similarly, the hydraulic fracking industry has somewhat depressed the market price of natural gas in the US. The miners are really hunting for high-value liquid hydrocarbons.

And so they have been fracking more liquidy "wetter" natural gas where possible, depressing prices for ethane, butane and propane (but which are still more profitable than methane, BTU for BTU).

Cheaper ethane = cheaper plastics as we turn on more and more polyethylene plants (easier to store/ship).

In the winter, we can froth up gasoline with butane, which is largely why winter gas is cheaper.

Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#102

Post by Scoundreller »

stonogo wrote: post #58
lwhalen wrote: post #47

Interesting. I suppose I'm one of the few holdouts who still love leather clothing (motorcycle jackets, you weirdos ;-)) and accessories (I have multiple Saddleback Leather bags, wallets, etc). I don't see those items getting cheaper any time soon, I guess that indicates their profit margins have gone through the roof in the interim.

The expense in producing fine leather goods is the labor costs. It's a craft which requires much training and/or experience, and highly-skilled leatherworkers do not come cheaply.

Is there any reason why someone in a developing country couldn't be trained to do it?

It's definitely not a niche skill.

Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#103

Post by imgabe »

Clubber wrote: post #70
stonogo wrote: post #61

I'd be interested to know how much of this has to do with the dilution of the meaning of 'leather' in terms of consumer goods. The market is flooded with garbage products, which are produced by slicing a thin veneer of leather and gluing it to a plastic backing, which is then sold as "bonded leather." It's gotten so bad that full-grain leather products are exceedingly rare. Since 90% of "leather" products are such aw…

There is a grading system for leather. "Genuine" leather is a deceptive marketing term designed to sell shit leather as quality. https://joojoobs.com/leather-grades/

Yeah, there are still plenty of quality leather products out there, you just have to look for "full grain leather".

Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#104

Post by DuskStar »

jdsully wrote: post #88
sokoloff wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It appears to me that the report you cite says that the overall median real wage rose by 6.1% over that time period. (Table 1, page 4, first row; related text on page 5). What figure in the report are you using to determine a 5% decrease over that time period?

It almost certainly comes from this paragraph: > In 1979, wages at the 10th percentile ranged from $10.03 for black and Hispanic women to $14.42 for white men, whereas in 2018 wages in the 10th percentile ranged from $9.72 for Hispanic women to $13.70 for white men. This adds up to -4.99% for white men in the 10th percentile. Above the 10th percentile everyone has done better.

So the GGP mistook 'bottom decile' as 'top decile', then?

Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#105

Post by cbsks »

xahrepap wrote: post #67
stonogo wrote: post #61

I'd be interested to know how much of this has to do with the dilution of the meaning of 'leather' in terms of consumer goods. The market is flooded with garbage products, which are produced by slicing a thin veneer of leather and gluing it to a plastic backing, which is then sold as "bonded leather." It's gotten so bad that full-grain leather products are exceedingly rare. Since 90% of "leather" products are such aw…

I had a really awesome leather belt that I got when I was 15. I stopped wearing it when I was 30 because my weight finally out outgrew the belt. Still have it. It's no worse today than it was when I got it as a teen. I go through about a belt a year now. Because I always seem to end up with this crap you describe. Even if I try to avoid it. Guess I need to do a better job looking... Or just lose some weight so I can…

I have a couple of leather belts (one brown and one black) that I got from https://simpleleatherbelt.com/

I highly recommend them. These belts will last a lifetime.

Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#106

Post by yumraj »

Animats wrote: post #100
ngngngng wrote: post #55

I'm actually in the market for a leather jacket and boots right now, but I certainly haven't noticed prices going down at all. I'm finding leather jackets extremely difficult to shop for. Online advice is all over the place, and I want something to last a lifetime.

Find a cheap heavy but stiff motorcycle jacket that's solid leather. Get a can of Hydrophane leather dressing, which is about $20/half liter. This silicone oil is used to soften and waterproof saddles and horse equipment. Paint it on with a paintbrush. Give it about a day to soak in. You now have a soft leather jacket. Horse people have been using this stuff for decades. It beats the "natural" products like neats-foo…

Two questions:

1) when you say cheap, roughly how much? Range is fine.

2) any brands, websites that you can refer?

Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#107

Post by jbboehr »

xahrepap wrote: post #67
stonogo wrote: post #61

I'd be interested to know how much of this has to do with the dilution of the meaning of 'leather' in terms of consumer goods. The market is flooded with garbage products, which are produced by slicing a thin veneer of leather and gluing it to a plastic backing, which is then sold as "bonded leather." It's gotten so bad that full-grain leather products are exceedingly rare. Since 90% of "leather" products are such aw…

I had a really awesome leather belt that I got when I was 15. I stopped wearing it when I was 30 because my weight finally out outgrew the belt. Still have it. It's no worse today than it was when I got it as a teen. I go through about a belt a year now. Because I always seem to end up with this crap you describe. Even if I try to avoid it. Guess I need to do a better job looking... Or just lose some weight so I can…

It's funny, I have a similar story: my mother bought me a leather belt as a child around 1995. It finally bit the dust a few years ago. I bought a belt from the same company (Land's End) and it barely lasted a year. Then my aunt got me one from Duluth Trading Company for Christmas. That was about two years ago and it's shown no signs of stopping yet.

Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#108

Post by drcode »

brandmeyer wrote: post #59
matheweis wrote: post #7

“According to Hidenet, a leather markets research firm, a hide from a branded cow went for as little as $4 the week of July 15, down from as much as $81 just five years ago.” Wait, what? Consumer trends have shifted so radically in 5 years that even with a white hot economy leather prices have dropped by 20x?

Beef and hide are coupled goods. One cow produces about X kg of beef and Y m^2 of hide. If demand for beef is extra high, then it will depress the price of hide because the ratio in supply is roughly fixed between them. There are other examples in modern society. Chlorine and caustic soda are produced in strictly fixed ratios from NaCl salt and electricity. Extra demand for one will depress the price of the other. Th…

Why don't they just breed cows that are more spherical, to maximize the volume-to-surface-area ratio?

Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#109

Post by anon_cow1111 »

xahrepap wrote: post #67
stonogo wrote: post #61

I'd be interested to know how much of this has to do with the dilution of the meaning of 'leather' in terms of consumer goods. The market is flooded with garbage products, which are produced by slicing a thin veneer of leather and gluing it to a plastic backing, which is then sold as "bonded leather." It's gotten so bad that full-grain leather products are exceedingly rare. Since 90% of "leather" products are such aw…

I had a really awesome leather belt that I got when I was 15. I stopped wearing it when I was 30 because my weight finally out outgrew the belt. Still have it. It's no worse today than it was when I got it as a teen. I go through about a belt a year now. Because I always seem to end up with this crap you describe. Even if I try to avoid it. Guess I need to do a better job looking... Or just lose some weight so I can…

lifeProtip- Goodwill prices all belts the same in every store I've been to. They're like 1-3 dollars and there's usually a couple real leather ones on the rack. I have several just hanging around now.

Re: America has no use for hides, so leather prices plunge

#110

Post by Joelexander »

Scoundreller wrote: post #102
stonogo wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The expense in producing fine leather goods is the labor costs. It's a craft which requires much training and/or experience, and highly-skilled leatherworkers do not come cheaply.

Is there any reason why someone in a developing country couldn't be trained to do it? It's definitely not a niche skill.

Oh there are. They usually make up the "value" segment of the luxury goods markets.

For men's dress shoes brands like Meermin and Grant Stone (China) are competing with Carmina (Spain) and Alden (USA).

I'm sure there's others for every type of leather good imaginable.

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