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The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

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Re: The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

#41

Post by LifeLiverTransp »

Honestly, its not the first time we had massive deforrestation in human habitats- china has been there- several times. The solution is- for nature to adapt to human nature- aka Bamboo.. bamboo sprouts everyhwere you allow it - side of the road, just cleared ditch in the forrest- it grows fast and prevents savannah formation.

Finally- if you want to stop this, prevent further deforrestation, you need something like a solarpanel with a cheap nitrogen from air harvesting process- creating fertilizer for near low to nothing onsite, making those fields last. These are the only strategys i can see working longterm- not depending on politics and ilusionary wishes for cultural change.

I wrote a porn script for angels once- still waiting for the right cast to show up, but then oh, wow.

Re: The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

#42

Post by makomk »

Spoppys wrote: post #30

I'm seeing a lot of apparently conflicting information about these Amazon fires. I've seen sources saying its about average, and I've seen sources saying it's the worst since 2010. Are they in disagreement, or are they measuring different things, so aren't disagreeing? Or is something else going on? I'm kinda lost

From the Guardian article, the amount of ash and particulates in some Brazilian states has hit the highest levels since 2010. There are 27 states in Brazil (though I'm not sure all of them are downwind from rainforest or agricultural areas). Basically, in some areas it's the worst it's been since 2010, but overall it's about average.

Re: The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

#43

Post by farseer »

brabel wrote: post #25
deepnet wrote: post #5

The Amazon Rainforest Tipping Point is 20-25% deforestation total. We are at 20% deforestation now. https://phys.org/news/2018-03-amazon-deforestation.html The forest fires stem from previous deforestation, so destruction is cumulative, exponential. Past the tipping point the rainforest dies. To quote the Expanse, this is the cascade, (and we are nearing the point where) this station is already dead.

> The forest fires stem from previous deforestation, so destruction is cumulative, exponential. That's just wrong. The fires can actually make the forest stronger next year[1]. This is part of the cycle of nature. Have you been to the Amazon? Pretty much every inch of it has burned in the past, but after a year or so, you could barely tell, as in the wet season, the plants grow a lot faster than most people who are n…

The forest does recover, unless the burnt area is cleared and planted with soy or corn of-course.

Re: The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

#44

Post by meerita »

_hl_ wrote: post #39
meerita wrote: post #23

All I have seen these days in the press is to blame Bolsonaro, of some fires that occur, every year, for decades on an area of 5,500,000 km2 and you will tell me how a person can monitor so much surface, which is not even People can travel. Presidents of other countries that I am not going to mention have campaigned against Bolsonaro using old photos. It is unfortunate the political use that is being given to this, a…

> how a person can monitor so much surface Brazil used to have an autonomous satellite monitoring system (Prodes and Deter) which Bolsonaro is actively working to dismantle, along with the environmental protection agency Ibama. There are many valid reasons to blame Bolsonaro for what is happening.

NASA is doing that too. But how you can control everything to the point to avoid the Fire Season. You can't. The Amazonias (I visited in 1998) is not a place you can move teams and quickly shutdown any fires. It's a very complicated terrain and also, the fires spread at a pace you cannot really imagine.

Re: The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

#45

Post by sarbaz »

I've read like 10 articles about this so far, and they did not answer the following questions:

- How large, proportionally, is the burned region? How long would it theoretically take for the whole thing to burn down at this rate?

- How large, proportionally is the burned region in Siberia? How long has the Siberian fire been burning, how long would it take for everything to burn down, etc.

- I've seen the 20% of the worlds oxygen stat a bunch. But how significant is this fire in affecting that? Wouldn't we expect the Siberian fire to have a larger effect because it covers a thousand times more area?

- Can anyone explain the tipping-point business? How can a series of local fires cause a global collapse? Especially considering that this is neither the first nor the biggest fire?

- Do these fires burn themselves out? How do they end?

Re: The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

#46

Post by _hl_ »

meerita wrote: post #44
_hl_ wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how a person can monitor so much surface Brazil used to have an autonomous satellite monitoring system (Prodes and Deter) which Bolsonaro is actively working to dismantle, along with the environmental protection agency Ibama. There are many valid reasons to blame Bolsonaro for what is happening.

NASA is doing that too. But how you can control everything to the point to avoid the Fire Season. You can't. The Amazonias (I visited in 1998) is not a place you can move teams and quickly shutdown any fires. It's a very complicated terrain and also, the fires spread at a pace you cannot really imagine.

How can you be arguing that Bolsonaro is doing the best he can to reduce deforestation and fires when he has repeatedly shown that he has no interest in doing so?

You certainly can't do much against the fires once they have broken out at such a vast scale. But with something as recurring and hence predictable as the Amazon wildfires, you can at least try to reduce spread and contain the damage. Also, I'm sure a lot of the fires are intentionally started as a quick way of deforesting and clearing land for farmland and cattle.

You seem to argue that the fires are purely an act of God and there is nothing humanity can do, which just seems a little ridiculous given that Bolsonaro is dismantling established environmental protection policies to make way for more farming etc.

There is a lot of evidence that human activity is significantly contributing to the wildfires [1].

[1]: https://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/content/fires-amazon-rainforest-...

Re: The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

#47

Post by sarbaz »

sarbaz wrote: post #45

I've read like 10 articles about this so far, and they did not answer the following questions: - How large, proportionally, is the burned region? How long would it theoretically take for the whole thing to burn down at this rate? - How large, proportionally is the burned region in Siberia? How long has the Siberian fire been burning, how long would it take for everything to burn down, etc. - I've seen the 20% of the…

> - Can anyone explain the tipping-point business? How can a series of local fires cause a global collapse? Especially considering that this is neither the first nor the biggest fire?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_savannas_of_Nort... seems to suggest that specifically burned areas of rainforest turn into savannah. But a lack of fire will cause a reversion to rainforest.

Re: The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

#49

Post by NeedMoreTea »

sarbaz wrote: post #45

I've read like 10 articles about this so far, and they did not answer the following questions: - How large, proportionally, is the burned region? How long would it theoretically take for the whole thing to burn down at this rate? - How large, proportionally is the burned region in Siberia? How long has the Siberian fire been burning, how long would it take for everything to burn down, etc. - I've seen the 20% of the…

The best lay explanation of the tipping point business I saw recently was this Economist piece: https://www.economist.com/briefing/2019/08/01/the-amazon-is-...

In short beyond a certain point the local climate becomes unsuited to the flora, further encouraging deforestation and changing the climate, which becomes more prone to drought. Meanwhile the evaporative cooling from the shrinking expanse of trees declines, changing the climate and encouraging drought. It becomes a reinforcing effect.

Re: The Amazon in Brazil is on fire – how bad is it?

#50

Post by aliveupstairs »

EugeneOZ wrote: post #33
fwsgonzo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "manipulation" to stop destroying the planet? To me its all about the accelerated logging in the amazon basin that we know is fatal.

No. This year Russia lost 3 times more forest and nobody cares :) All the noise is just about politics.

Any sources on that?
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