Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#891

Post by naniwaduni » Sat, Aug 24, 2019, 4:38 AM UTC

rjf72 wrote: post #785

ssalazar wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An organization(in this case, a for-profit company) created to deliver products and services to consumers and advertisers playing politics on the world stage is laughable at best, and downright irresponsible at worst. Google is one of the largest technology corporations in existence, controlling the flow of information for huge swaths of the world's population. They have no choice but to "play politics" as many of…

What do you mean by they have no choice? Societies have different views and values, and the most intransient of these tend to be reflected in their laws. Companies can offer their product while avoiding politics by simply obeying the laws of a nation. For instance online pornography is a political topic yet the answer is clearly determined by nations: very illegal in Saudi Arabia, kind of legal in the UK, completely…

They have no choice because it has political ramifications when they sneeze.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#892

Post by CobrastanJorji » Sat, Aug 24, 2019, 4:41 AM UTC

fromthestart wrote: post #873

bduerst wrote: post #852

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That video has been debunked as being heavily edited misinformation. Here's Jen's side on it: https://medium.com/@gennai.jen/this-is-not-how-i-expected-mo...

You don't debunk something by saying it's debunked. So her claim is that because she was no longer in the trust and safety team at the time of the video, her opinions are irrelevant? Of course she's going to claim that the video was "heavily edited." But the validity of the video comes from the fact that there is no context which makes the clips of her speaking any less damning. They clearly indicate a willingness by…

Her claim is much simpler. Project Veritas calls her a "powerful senior executive," and she says "I'm not any sort of executive and wouldn't know about any of this even if it were true."

I don't see any reason why a propaganda outfit led by a guy convicted of sneaking into government offices on false pretenses should be taken at their word that a random Google employee is a powerful executive when the employee in question says that they are not one. Seems like "they are an executive" would be pretty easy to establish.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#893

Post by godelski » Sat, Aug 24, 2019, 5:07 AM UTC

karpodiem wrote: post #847

ssalazar wrote: post #696

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> An organization(in this case, a for-profit company) created to deliver products and services to consumers and advertisers playing politics on the world stage is laughable at best, and downright irresponsible at worst. Google is one of the largest technology corporations in existence, controlling the flow of information for huge swaths of the world's population. They have no choice but to "play politics" as many of…

"No. More and more, technology firms and the individuals within them are realizing their own responsibility to consider the ethical implications of the systems they are building." Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Translation: Who watches the watchmen

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#894

Post by stcredzero » Sat, Aug 24, 2019, 5:09 AM UTC

anoncake wrote: post #653

ivan_gammel wrote: post #643

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Within current historical and cultural context, legal and technology frameworks etc the dataset is big enough to give some confidence that better structures won’t be found tomorrow or in the next 5 years.

It's odd that when it comes to social issues, this site suddenly becomes conservative and doesn't even think progress is possible.

this site suddenly becomes conservative and doesn't even think progress is possible

Progress is possible. The thing is, that progress doesn't necessarily take the form that people wish it would take in their utopian fantasies. If we use history as a guide, we find that progress almost always takes a form with would have been unimaginable to past generations, if not at times even a little shocking to them. For example: The progress of agricultural technology, and its ability to feed people with unprecedented efficiency would have been considered wonderful and utopian by our forebears, until they started looking into some of the disturbing details.

A realistic, nuanced view of issues involving human factors and group psychology often incorporates elements of both the progressive and conservative mindsets. Both viewpoints are needed for effective, balanced government.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#895

Post by School-Cotton » Sat, Aug 24, 2019, 5:10 AM UTC

GuiA wrote: post #870

g9yuayon wrote: post #782

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds like mobs in the French revolution. You don't agree with my political view, so you deserve the guillotine. And people do this all in the name of justice and righteousness.

Clearly if the starving, downtrodden French people had sought a polite debate with the king instead, it’d have ushered the age of democracy and human rights much faster.

The starving, downtrodden French people mainly just wanted to reduce their taxes and the privileges of their local nobility. Getting rid of the king (and to a large extent, the church) was very much a movement of Paris-based intellectuals, not indigent farmers.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#896

Post by FabHK » Sat, Aug 24, 2019, 5:19 AM UTC

einhverfr wrote: post #888

tomcam wrote: post #830

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any citations for “Business Liberalism view of the elite GOP members such as the Koch brothers”? Unable to confirm this term

https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctvc77gn1 for starters. If we understand Liberalism to be a social philosophy tradition starting with Hobbes, being further developed in various forms through Locke, Rousseau, Adam Smith, Edmund Burke, John Rawls, etc. and seeking the liberation of the individual from culture, community, and family then for various the social Liberalism of the democrats (which seeks particularly to libe…

1) I would not include Rousseau among the fathers, but among the enemies of Liberalism.

2) I think the discourse in the USA has been heavily tilted in favour of libertarianism (maybe what you call "Business Liberalism") by concerted subversive effort sponsored by Koch, Mercer, etc., as outlined eg in the book Dark Money by Jane Mayer.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#897

Post by School-Cotton » Sat, Aug 24, 2019, 5:27 AM UTC

mullingitover wrote: post #112

baby wrote: post #29

I'm not at Google but my guess is that the number of Chinese employees and the current protests in HongKong might create some internal political fights.

Being from China, which bans Google , while working at Google and arguing in favor of China's policies toward Hong Kong must make for some severe cognitive dissonance.

As far as I know Google isn't banned in China; it's just blocked. In the sense that there are no legal consequences for using a VPN to get around the firewall.

I could be wrong but this is my understanding.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#898

Post by remarkEon » Sat, Aug 24, 2019, 5:30 AM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #843

scoobyyabbadoo wrote: post #832

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should a bunch of tech workers be administering justice? We've elected government officials to handle that.

They don’t.

The solution to that problem is a new government.

Not to give Google corporate Sovereignty to replace it.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#899

Post by School-Cotton » Sat, Aug 24, 2019, 5:33 AM UTC

pgeorgi wrote: post #322

Erlich_Bachman wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they just can't no longer assume that they can get away with it and prevent leaks about their practices from becoming public.

> prevent leaks about their practices from becoming public Google is a company that provides gyms, cooking classes, non-work discussion forums, extensive cafeteria service, massages and so on and so on to make sure employees are living within the company as much as possible. But discussions on such random forums don't reflect company practice just as the gyms don't exist to make every employee a professional marathon…

> Google is a company that provides gyms, cooking classes, non-work discussion forums, extensive cafeteria service, massages and so on and so on to make sure employees are living within the company as much as possible.

I would argue these perks exist because they are what top tech workers can command in the market, not because of some nefarious purpose of wanting people to work longer hours.

Sort of like how MLB players have all kinds of nice perks written into their bargaining agreement like always flying first class, etc.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#900

Post by KSteffensen » Sat, Aug 24, 2019, 5:43 AM UTC

notzuck wrote: post #871

bjourne wrote: post #848

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You dont want to talk about that stuff in the office, because there is not going to be any just solution. There are going to be asshats in the office that can't handle being wrong or the fact that not everyone is sharing their views. Political discussions aren't toxic - immature people who can't handle disagreement are. It is not great that we are letting those people ruin the workplace for the rest of us. I'm pret…

Utter nonsense - the lack of politcal discourse at work does not result in worse politics generally. Politics at work has long been a no no at most companies and there's no evidence to show this has caused the rise of any extremism. Work is where you get your work done. There is no room for you opinions on Trump etc, whether positive or negative. Your political views can very easily marginalise others especially when…

Lack of respectful political discourse in general results in worse politics.

It should be possible to talk (and disagree) about politics without it affecting work cooperation. I'm not sure whether the fact that it's not, is a cause or a symptom of the current political climate.