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China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

economist.com

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Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#121

Post by wahern »

cdiamand wrote: post #12

Can anyone recommend a good book on China, or modern geopolitics?

I read The Tiananmen Papers circa 2003. It's dry but it's primary material, allowing you to make your own judgments about how Chinese politics works. I think it's served me well, and I don't think I've missed out on any insights offered by packaged, scholarly narratives. Precisely because it was primary material it's aged well, even with the huge changes in Chinese society and government since then.

OTOH, I had studied International Politics in undergraduate, and took several classes on SE Asian history and politics. And I also had done some semi-professional research regarding exports controls on supercomputing technology--a big issue back when Linux Beowulf clusters were hot. So I had some background knowledge going in.

Still, there's much to be said for primary material. I know there's some debate about the selection of what went into The Tiananmen Papers, but doing a deep dive on a narrow issue is more useful to understanding the broader society than you'd think, even if the material selection is skewed. For similar reasons, I feel like I learned a tremendous amount about Chilean political history and culture, more than all other sources combined (except perhaps contemporary Chilean newsprint) reading "Cybernetic Revolutionaries: Technology and Politics in Allende's Chile". There are fundamental truths about a culture that are revealed by the fine details of how historical events unfold, independent of the larger context (i.e. Allende's soft socialist revolution, or brutally paranoid Chinese state repression).

Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#122

Post by FabHK »

groundlogic wrote: post #112
FabHK wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I'd love to see some independent verification of this story. It's lovely, ben trovato, but I have seen it only sourced to some dodgy WhatsApp groups or Facebook posts or so. It is certainly not inconceivable, and frankly, if it's true, the fact that Hogg doesn't go around and flaunt it makes me think even more highly of him. But I just don't know whether it's true.

I'd think that he'd say something if it was false.

Good point. I'd have responded that it has never been reported "properly", but then, Newsweek, one should hope, is pretty proper. Let's see.

Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#123

Post by FabHK »

wbl wrote: post #20
toomuchtodo wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you’re a Hong Kong resident, what are your options? Can you flee the country with a visa to a first world country with rights less under pressure from a totalitarian state? Edit: I genuinely appreciate all of the replies to this comment as this humanitarian crisis unfolds.

Visa free travel to the US. The situation isn't that desparate yet. But I fully expect this President will toss them back into the jaws of tyranny.

HKers enjoy visa free (or VOA) travel to many countries, but entering obviously is only the very first part of the process; staying legally is the crux of the matter.

Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#124

Post by samstave »

shawnz wrote: post #87
samstave wrote: post #11

They should make a backup of the phone and then reset it to factory defaults then restore the backup once out of the country. Does the chinese gov have backdoor access to gmail/gdrive?

There is still the possibility that border agents could implant devices with a persistent backdoor. Especially if the devices are taken out of your sight during the checks

Well the nsa has been doing that on intercepted cisco devices for literally three decades.

Basically you need to assume no privacy whatsoever but at the same time, still stand the fuck up for free speech.

Fu k all authoritarians.

Recall when jetpack (reddit founders) were trying to sell sentiment manipulation to the government?

Where the fuck is palantir these days?

Twitter is the shithole of the internet.

Reddit is now compromat by tencent

Voat.co is compromised

8chan is gone

4chan is also uselessly trustworthy (although i admit i have been impressed over the years as to some of the things they have accomplished) ((my secret conspiracy on that is there are many intels on 4chan that know how to post true-anon and reveal shit))

I personally feel really bad for all my interest in the cyberpunk future i thought we were heading for - but instead we built digital 1984.

Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#125

Post by FabHK »

cltsang wrote: post #39
cdiamand wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I've read those and they're great, but I'm looking for something that's less of an analogy. Something that puts China in the context of modern geopolitics. Preferably helping me understand their development in the last century.

In that case I'd recommend The Hundred-Year Marathon: China's Secret Strategy to Replace America as the Global Superpower [0] by Hudson Institute's China expert. and Unrestricted Warfare: China's Master Plan to Destroy America [1] These are rather hawkish but unfortunately also nailing the truth. [0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/20696000-the-hundred-yea... [1] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/855077.Unrestr…

FWIW, the book seems misnamed: hundred years is hardly a marathon from the Chinese perspective. Maybe not quite a sprint, but a medium distance hike. Their historical perspective encompasses millennia.

Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#126

Post by wahern »

chapium wrote: post #23
devoply wrote: post #4

I have said it before but all of this is pretty classic fascist behavior where loyalty to the corporate state is demanded without question. This is for all serving purposes a monster that the West created. I just worry about what this looks like going forward, where we have this huge massive superpower which acts this way and can't be questioned.

China created China. The west is an influencer but to say it drives the direction of that country is misplaced and not accounting for how much power china has domestically.

China is perhaps the only other country in the world as impervious to foreign influence as the U.S.; and with citizens as oblivious to the outside world.

Of course, neither are completely impervious. And the citizens aren't completely oblivious. But from everything I've read about China and the Chinese, including little things like how Chinese tourists and visitors behave in foreign countries, the similarities are striking. And of course they have an obvious common source--both countries don't really need to care much about the outside world because of their size and power, and culturally they were historically inward looking even before they rose to global powers.

Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#127

Post by Varcht »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #103
Varcht wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there was some hope that capitalism would bring about democracy. It hasn't quite worked out (yet?).

Why would you think that an economic system based on minority control over (often formerly public) resources would bring about a political system based on majority entitlement?

Somehow, comrade porcupine, I feel we could save some time if we just agree to disagree.

https://qz.com/1691785/chinas-paying-to-build-its-influence-...

Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#128

Post by hello_moto »

AFascistWorld wrote: post #111
tmeprieodj wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can confirm this from my friends in Vancouver and growing up there. Most Hong Kong people assimilate quite well, it’s new wave from mainland China that doesn’t. You can feel it in the atmosphere. Driving Ferrari’s everywhere and showing off. It’s not a good look for anyone.

The tax from luxury cars they bought is the best thing they could do for Canada.

Canadian govt (or BC) are not smart cats. Unfortunately.

I'd personally make tons of policies to extract as much money possible from these type of immigrants tbh.

Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#129

Post by lowdose »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #5
simonh wrote: post #2

>Chinese inspectors have started screening the phones of Cathay crew for anti-Beijing material. If that doesn't persuade ordinary Hong Kongers to love and trust the mainland authorities, I don't know what will.

If you’re a Hong Kong resident, what are your options? Can you flee the country with a visa to a first world country with rights less under pressure from a totalitarian state? Edit: I genuinely appreciate all of the replies to this comment as this humanitarian crisis unfolds.

As a European citizen I would really like to provide the people of Hong Kong a passport of their choosing. Our Western colonial mistakes are responsible for setting up China with this situation in HK. The best is to acknowledge our mistakes and welcome anybody that feels compromised by a Chinese annexation.

In the past the Netherlands has made a promise to the people of South Maluku a republic and independent status from Indonesia in a similar situation which in the end could not be upheld. This enfolded in to a very traumatic event where people out of desperation high jacked a train in the Netherlands to come to a solution. Some of these people where killed.

China has a righteous claim on HK and the West should not be in denial of the inevitable. Giving China the chance of restoring their geographical region while facilitating a frictionless migration for those in need would prevent in worse case scenario a war.

Asian people assimilate very well in Western societies and we can always use more people with an average IQ of 108.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_South_Maluku

Re: China’s assault on Cathay Pacific

#130

Post by alteria »

wendyshu wrote: post #98
groundlogic wrote: post #78

https://www.newsweek.com/cathay-ceo-refused-name-hong-kong-p... > The Taiwan News claimed that Cathay Pacific CEO Rupert Hogg's decision to resign last week came after he refused to name names to the Chinese government when he was asked to provide a list of employees who were involved in the Hong Kong protests. > China's Civil Aviation Administration ordered Cathay to provide a list of employees who were involved in…

(Some say this version of events is an untrue rumor.)

It's definitely something that many wish was true, which is why it's being spread so widely.
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