Live data from Hacker News

In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

nytimes.com

141–150 of 501 posts

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#141
post #58

Whoa. Using Seattle as a positive story in the war on drugs seems...highly questionable. The city has been essentially destroyed by junkie infestation, enabled by (possibly well-meaning) people.

Yeah really. I urge any city leaders who read this to spend a day walking around downtown Seattle to see what "figured it out" means.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From that article: > Charges for the first three assaults were dismissed by the City of Seattle because of mental health concerns, prosecutors said in the charging papers. Jesus, WTF? If he is attacking people because of mental illness, why isn't he locked up in a mental hospital? "Sorry, you attacked people but you're crazy, so have a nice day!" And why is trying to throw someone off an overpass charged with assault…

I don't think they have any mental hospitals to put him in. Locking people up in mental hospitals isn't much of a thing anymore.

Does Seattle / Washington not have anything? I live in one of those "poor Red states", and we absolutely do. I know a few folks who have been forcefully committed, though the common denominator seemed self-harm as opposed to harming passerby.

Seems very odd Wilson managed to dodge both mental facilities and prisons.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#143
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you offer an alternative solution then? Throwing the homeless people in jail is ineffective and immoral. If your solution is drug treatment programs, great, but then don't argue against raising taxes to pay for them.

We need low cost low security jails for people who commit property crimes. Basically just wall off a few square miles and throw them in there left to their own devices.

Many prisons in central and South America are run like this: the prisoners are thrown into a contained environment without guards otherwise, the prisoners themselves (usually visit a gangs) organize the prison economy and otherwise keep the peace (bar for some occasional riots).

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#144

The reporters designation of "figured out" seems to stem more from the fact that the solution fits his own view than any actual real evidence. There is mention of the difficulties such lax policies has brought to the city, but they are waved away as being "growing pains" toward a new utopia. I can't say, living here, that I feel that the problem is solved. I view the needles outside my apartment as evidence to the co…

Do you think there would be fewer needles outside your apartment if we simply locked these people up? I think there would be more.

I agree that the limits of rehabilitation need to be seriously considered, and that good policy requires a mix of approaches. That said, all of your arguments could be applied to alcoholics during prohibition.

I think if we actually want a sense of community in this city, it starts by treating our neighbors as humans. These drug users are your neighbors. What are you doing to help them?

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#145
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you need statistics to tell you that it's wrong to not prosecute violent repeat offenders?

Gimme the details then? How did it happen? What was the justification if any? Did it actually happen?

From another comment: https://www.seattlepi.com/local/crime/article/Charge-Man-att...

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#146

The reporters designation of "figured out" seems to stem more from the fact that the solution fits his own view than any actual real evidence. There is mention of the difficulties such lax policies has brought to the city, but they are waved away as being "growing pains" toward a new utopia. I can't say, living here, that I feel that the problem is solved. I view the needles outside my apartment as evidence to the co…

Eventually a junkie will commit a serious crime against one of the tech luminaries that live in and around Seattle. I’m guessing that the lax enforcement environment will be gone within about a day of that incident.

Seattle is playing with fire here. I wouldn’t set foot in a city where hard drug use is tolerated, and seemingly celebrated, by many of the people that live there. Junkies will do whatever is necessary to get their next fix. It seems like a bad idea to be anywhere near a city with policies that both attract and help create them.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#147
post #26
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any statistics to back that up (violence rate)? I don’t feel like anecdotes make for good conversation here.

Yeah I mean, without statistics his anecdotes are meaningless. It's a common thing to complain here in Seattle, but having lived in the Midwest for most of my life I know what true violence looks like and feels like. I don't hear guns every night like I did in KC. There aren't 600 murders a year like in Chicago. I'm not saying Seattle is perfect but I've never felt safer. And I live in the Central District, which is…

It wasn’t this bad in the 90s or 80s, when crime was higher everywhere else. Relatively speaking, Seattle is worse off than it was before, which is a bit sad for the non transplants.

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#148
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't you offer an alternative solution then? Throwing the homeless people in jail is ineffective and immoral. If your solution is drug treatment programs, great, but then don't argue against raising taxes to pay for them.

We need low cost low security jails for people who commit property crimes. Basically just wall off a few square miles and throw them in there left to their own devices.

Arizona's attempt at this worked poorly: https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2017/aug/21/arizona-phoen...

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#149

The reporters designation of "figured out" seems to stem more from the fact that the solution fits his own view than any actual real evidence. There is mention of the difficulties such lax policies has brought to the city, but they are waved away as being "growing pains" toward a new utopia. I can't say, living here, that I feel that the problem is solved. I view the needles outside my apartment as evidence to the co…

It's interesting people always point to Portugal to support the idea that decriminalization is the way to address substance abuse. But compare Sweden, which has similar levels of drug dependency to Portugal, but takes a "zero tolerance" approach to drug use: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Sweden. While Sweden does include treatment as part of its drug policy, that is a complement to, not replacement for, strict law enforcement.

(Swedes are very anti-drug. While a narrow majority of even Republicans in the US support legalization of cannabis, 83% of Swedes support keeping it illegal: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sweden-cannabis/in-anti-d...)

Re: In effect, Seattle is decriminalizing the use of hard drugs

#150
post #77

The reporters designation of "figured out" seems to stem more from the fact that the solution fits his own view than any actual real evidence. There is mention of the difficulties such lax policies has brought to the city, but they are waved away as being "growing pains" toward a new utopia. I can't say, living here, that I feel that the problem is solved. I view the needles outside my apartment as evidence to the co…

It's certainly not just Seattle either, the large-scale homeless/junky situation describes basically every west coast city. There's obviously a much deeper problem.

Isn’t the problem simply overly liberal policy making? It seems moderation has disappeared on the West coast, and these cities basically don’t enforce laws against those pursuing a nomadic drug centric lifestyle on the backs of taxpayer supported land/amenities/services.
Post reply on HN