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Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

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Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#331

Post by wutbrodo »

blackflame7000 wrote: post #245
wutbrodo wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is so hilariously wrong that I don't even know where to start. Google's culture was predicated on hiring intelligent, emotionally-continent adults. Free discussion of politics wasn't banned during my time there because everyone was capable of understanding precisely the opposite of what you're describing: that differing views on the world exist and are attributable to more than just whether someone is a good or…

Or maybe Google's interview process is flawed by emphasizing whiteboard skills over people skills.

I'm the first to say how horribly broken tech hiring is, but that's relative to an ideal. I frankly don't know of any other way to hire at large scale and ensure a baseline of quality across the company. Google leaned heavily on whiteboard interviews during my time there too, so that doesn't explain shifts in employee norms and culture.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#332

Post by rollinDyno »

dmix wrote: post #224

A small group of people always ruin these things for everyone else. ie, the people who can't handle politics and think the worlds constantly on fire so they think they're justified in ignoring social grace and time/place taboos. The internet news machines have generated many thousands of these people. I feel like they are becoming more popular and giving even less of a shit that other people don't want to be forced t…

I hear you, but have you considered that the world's actually on fire? Perhaps you wouldn't notice because you don't live in the Amazon.

I don't mean that seriously, but it does serve a point. How can you tell if people are just ranting "because of the internet" and not because they are suffering and think your political inaction is contributing to their pains?

Because of your comment I will try to be more cautious about people complaining as they might just be attention grabbers but it's also dangerous to fully ignore them because it makes us uncomfortable.

We should be grateful people rant to one another, because it means we still believe we can help ourselves. If this was a dictatorship we were living in there would be no point in complaining to the neighbours.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#333

Post by AnimalMuppet »

arrrg wrote: post #220
Kalium wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tolerance isn't considered a virtue because it's easy. Tolerance is a virtue because it's difficult . It requires us to put up with people who may adhere to worldviews we find utterly alien or hold views we find abhorrent. It's easy to come up with an example and find yourself thinking "It's unreasonable to tolerate that!". Instead, consider asking yourself why people a century ago might tolerate views you think of a…

Tolerance of someone who wants to deny your whole existence is not something anyone should ever tolerate. That‘s not a virtue, that‘s madness and potentially suicidal.

Be careful that you do not want to deny their whole existence in return.

The example given was a gay person who encounters someone (a Muslim, say) who thinks they should be sentenced to death. But if the gay person decides in response that Islam should be eradicated, that's (at a minimum) cultural genocide.

Note well: I am not an apologist for Islam. I consider their theology to be wrong. But in opposing them, don't become them.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#334

Post by kerng »

SignalsFromBob wrote: post #307
nostrademons wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been at Google in 5 years but I worked with a lot of Chinese coworkers from all three of mainland China, Taiwan, and Hong Kong when I was there (as well as ABCs of those descents). Honestly, I never saw a Chinese employee get into a political argument. Mostly they were just happy to be in the U.S. and draw a Google-level salary. ABCs (including myself) would, but usually about American politics, not Chinese…

ABCs? I don't understand. What does that mean?

American Born Chinese

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#335

Post by [deleted] »

snowwrestler wrote: post #316
Kalium wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tolerance isn't considered a virtue because it's easy. Tolerance is a virtue because it's difficult . It requires us to put up with people who may adhere to worldviews we find utterly alien or hold views we find abhorrent. It's easy to come up with an example and find yourself thinking "It's unreasonable to tolerate that!". Instead, consider asking yourself why people a century ago might tolerate views you think of a…

Tolerance of someone who thinks such things is certainly possible. Tolerance of someone who says such things in a work environment--knowing that the subject of the speech might be a coworker, boss, or direct report--is another thing entirely. Employees should not have to tolerate that, and employers should not expect them to. To be super clear about this, making bigoted statements is a behavior in the workplace, and…

[deleted]

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#336

Post by [deleted] »

yonaguska wrote: post #61
fortran77 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is exactly right. At my small startup we may have heated discussions about monads, or tabs vs spaces, but you'll never hear any talk about any elected official or laws or current events. It's not that we don't care. It's just that it's not the reason we spend 8+ hours/day together.

The difference is that Google's product is almost inherently political, especially when it comes to how they tailor search results and rank news results. I think it is productive that people who work on products that have political ramifications should be allowed to talk about politics because what they do has political ramifications. I would hate for dissenting voices within google to be silenced and everyone to sim…

[deleted]

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#338

Post by apple4ever »

stcredzero wrote: post #298
oppositelock wrote: post #187

I worked at Google for quite a while, 2005-2013, and even then, the internal political discussion was pretty toxic, but a lot smaller in scope since there are far fewer people. There were definitely groups meant for discussing politics, and loudmouths like me willingly participated in those - however, it was very uncivil. There was a majority view in the company, and if anyone didn't agree with the majority view, the…

I worked at Google for quite a while, 2005-2013, and even then, the internal political discussion was pretty toxic, but a lot smaller in scope since there are far fewer people. It sounds like the work culture at Google has rediscovered the emergent factors which gave rise to the traditional cultural strictures against talking about money, politics, and religion. Good science is repeatable. Given that Google is arguab…

Great points. There are plenty of areas to discuss politics, and at work doesn't have to be one of them.

I've studiously avoided talking to anybody at work about politics, as it usually only serves to anger people if you don't agree. I've had a successful career of doing that.

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#339

Post by gwbas1c »

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #195
gwbas1c wrote: post #92

Ever since the infamous "diversity memo," (which I disagree with,) I've gotten the impression that political discussions at Google turned toxic. A well run company includes people with diverse political views points. A workplace that's hostile to anyone who leans right or leans left ultimately hurts diversity.

My impression has not been that the memo is when political discussions turned toxic, but merely the first time it very publicly breached the sacred wall of non-disclosure with the outside world. Prior to that, most everyone seemed content to be upset with each other internally.

Shortly before the memo, there were stories and comments in HN about problems inside Google.

I vaguely remember a story about someone in HR getting fired because they didn't pull a white male out of the running for a job. (The details are too fuzzy at this point.)

Re: Google Doesn’t Want Staff Debating Politics at Work Anymore

#340

Post by [deleted] »

SignalsFromBob wrote: post #307
nostrademons wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't been at Google in 5 years but I worked with a lot of Chinese coworkers from all three of mainland China, Taiwan, and Hong Kong when I was there (as well as ABCs of those descents). Honestly, I never saw a Chinese employee get into a political argument. Mostly they were just happy to be in the U.S. and draw a Google-level salary. ABCs (including myself) would, but usually about American politics, not Chinese…

ABCs? I don't understand. What does that mean?

[deleted]
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