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India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

nytimes.com

51–60 of 64 posts

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#51
post #44

I'm in a major city, and the grid isn't very stable, but stable enough for me to get an electric vehicle that I need to charge once a week. Solar panels are easy to get, but the utilities are realizing that nett metering isn't a good deal for them - my otherwise high electricity bill will be zero if I get solar panels, and so they have no incentive to service my house. That aside, because our cities are so crowded an…

We really need to move to a model of charging a flat fee for a connection, and then metered rate for electricity. Wrapping everything up in the metered rate just creates annoying disincentives for the utility companies.

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#52
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like it. I like pedestrians asserting themselves in traffic. I think in urban areas pedestrians should have precedence. Walking is our natural way of getting around.

In most places in Europe or the US, you wouldn't have to stand in the way of a vehicle to get them to stop. You would just use the nearest crosswalk and vehicles will nearly always stop as soon as it's clear that you're crossing.

India is an exception to that too. There they will speed up to scare you out of the crosswalk

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#53

About 60 million Indians hop on an e-rickshaw every day, analysts estimate. Passengers pay about 10 rupees, or 14 cents, for a ride. In a country with limited shared transit options and a vast population of working poor people, the vehicles provide a vital service as well as a decent living for drivers, who are mostly illiterate.

What is the citation for the drivers being "mostly illiterate"? Sounds like bullshit to me.

The country is something like 70-80% literate and a significant part of the illiterate population consists of old people.

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#55
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fugitive gas from CNG is a thing. CNG comes from fracking, which wreaks havoc on the water table. You aren't considering the supply chain costs of CNG, but you implicitly do include them for coal, which comes from equally polluting sources.

NG is a byproduct of oil drilling. You either pipe and distribute to do work or burn it off. The former is much better environmentally than the latter. Countries with local NG supplies, especially developing ones, really should use them.

Is that the case in India? I worked in the Canadian oil industry and most gas wells were dedicated hydrofractured wells - better for the air but way worse for ground water. I'd advise caution about hydrofracturing to any area that doesn't have an excess of water available.

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#56
These are a step in the right direction, but are not as environmentally effective as you might think. Major changes in India's grid energy are needed before this will yield significant improvements.

I was the project lead for a (sadly failed) electric autonomous vehicle project in India, the Amritsar Pod[1]. This was using a technology which, when deployed in the west, is vastly environmentally superior to (say) buses. That's for several reasons that are broadly shared with electric rickshaws:

1. As a demand-responsive vehicle, it only runs when there is passenger demand. So (aside from empty-vehicle redistribution movements) there is a minimum occupancy of 25% (for a single person in a 4-person vehicle), and in many cases, the average occupancy is closer to 35%-50%. This is in contrast to buses, which need to keep circulating even when there is little or no demand. A full-occupancy bus is very efficient, but a 50-person-capacity bus that is carrying 4 passengers is more polluting, per-person than a single-occupant SUV. This is in fact the case in America, where the average occupancy of urban buses is 9%. In Europe it's more like 20-25%. But in both cases, pods are still more efficient.

2. As electric vehicles, they of course produce no tailpipe emissions, and are as clean as whatever grid they draw power from.

So put these two factors together, and it's an environmentally winning proposition in the West (although it hasn't caught on there either, yet). But interestingly, this calculation doesn't work in India:

1. The urban buses are hardly low-occupancy. Average occupancies tend to be around 55%, and can reach 85% in some cases. Replacing these with 25%-50% occupancy pods is only a win if the pods are significantly cleaner.

2. The grid energy is horribly dirty.

What I found when I did a CO2 analysis of my system is that what would have reduced CO2 by > 90% in the West was merely a break-even proposition in India. Didn't increase CO2 -- and would've been worth doing on the basis of travel time savings, pedestrian conflicts, etc. -- but didn't actually help with CO2 either. This will be the case for any electric vehicle until India's grid becomes significantly cleaner.

1: https://www.ultraglobalprt.com/wheres-it-used/amritsar-india...

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#57
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> improved public transport (metros) Where can I find statistics on how many metro stations are in operation today vs a decade ago?

For India specifically? The wikipedia articles for each metro, perhaps. They provide a timeline when each was constructed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chennai_Metro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delhi_Metro https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Namma_Metro

Thanks, but I was looking for an India-wide statistic, like a graph, so I can see how fast (or slow) we're making progress.

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#58
post #27
post #24

I read recently , just some numbers that many TPS (Thermal power stations) are slowly being shutdown , because of myriad of reasons including water shortages , coal emission norms and falling costs of power (TPS /unit power is much higher than other sources) https://numerical.co.in/numerons/collection/5afecac0291c55fc... There are places like Raichur (famous for Rice cultivation down here) that has Super thermal stat…

If only we can get an efficient & cost effective Thorium reactor working, most of the coal plants can be shutdown much sooner. Going by publicly available data, we are no where near a working prototype.

Renewables and batteries will shut them down far far faster then a pie in the sky reactor that probably won't ever happen.

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#59
post #24

I read recently , just some numbers that many TPS (Thermal power stations) are slowly being shutdown , because of myriad of reasons including water shortages , coal emission norms and falling costs of power (TPS /unit power is much higher than other sources) https://numerical.co.in/numerons/collection/5afecac0291c55fc... There are places like Raichur (famous for Rice cultivation down here) that has Super thermal stat…

And yet, the Adani group has still commenced operations at the Carmichael mine in Australia [0] - the largest coal mine in Australia. It only exports low grade fuel to India too, and at a loss.

[0] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carmichael_coal_mine

Re: India’s Messy Electric Vehicle Revolution

#60
post #24

I read recently , just some numbers that many TPS (Thermal power stations) are slowly being shutdown , because of myriad of reasons including water shortages , coal emission norms and falling costs of power (TPS /unit power is much higher than other sources) https://numerical.co.in/numerons/collection/5afecac0291c55fc... There are places like Raichur (famous for Rice cultivation down here) that has Super thermal stat…

  An example is India's largest car manufacturer Maruti to stop diesel cars by 2020
I remember they are going to stop diesel car production as the cost to upgrade to BS VI emission norms is higher.
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