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Why the Amazon Is on Fire

citylab.com

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Re: Why the Amazon Is on Fire

#11

Post by endorphone »

vfc1 wrote: post #5

The main responsibility of the Amazon fires lies in the west. The Amazon is on fire in order for Brasil to be able to provide cheap meat for western countries. This comes under two main forms, one is to make room for soy crops, used mostly for cattle feed and not for direct human consumption, the other is for creating pasture land. The west, as well as China, encourage the Amazon fires by favorable trade agreements w…

"The Amazon is on fire in order for Brasil to be able to provide cheap meat for western countries."

The largest markets for Brazil beef are, in order, Hong Kong, China, Russia, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Chile, and Venezuela. I don't think this qualifies as "Western Countries". A very small amount, relative to those consumers, goes to the EU.

Close to none goes to the United States or Canada -- a minuscule novelty amount -- both of which are entirely self sufficient with beef, poultry, etc, and are net exporters.

There is a point where "blame the West" just isn't constructive as a go to.

Re: Why the Amazon Is on Fire

#12

Post by shinigami »

vixen99 wrote: post #6

"Using current NASA data, Amazonian fires show a decline over the record, and are nowhere close to a record so far in 2019." https://www.globalfiredata.org/forecast.html#elbeni

So what? It's still bad. There was a lot of effort on reducing deforestation and fires in the previous governments and now it's climbing back up.

Re: Why the Amazon Is on Fire

#13

Post by jacknews »

vfc1 wrote: post #5

The main responsibility of the Amazon fires lies in the west. The Amazon is on fire in order for Brasil to be able to provide cheap meat for western countries. This comes under two main forms, one is to make room for soy crops, used mostly for cattle feed and not for direct human consumption, the other is for creating pasture land. The west, as well as China, encourage the Amazon fires by favorable trade agreements w…

No, it's not, and I for one get fed up with this constant self-shaming, or "riich western country-shaming" attitude.

The problem is the entire system.

Of course there is demand, but there is also supply.

Each side must maintain standards, rather than just choosing the cheapest options.

And both sides must hold each other accountable. Consumers must verify that production is sustainable, etc, and suppliers must insist on prices that support that, and reject quick-money offers/undercutting-schemes that undermine standards.

In this particulr instance, I think there is a case (even an imperative) for "the west" to try to impose eco-tarrifs or eco-certifications etc on Brazilian beef, in order to pressure for more sustainable production practices.

Re: Why the Amazon Is on Fire

#14

Post by hu3 »

bni wrote: post #8
vixen99 wrote: post #6

"Using current NASA data, Amazonian fires show a decline over the record, and are nowhere close to a record so far in 2019." https://www.globalfiredata.org/forecast.html#elbeni

The dry season just started.

It started in July.

Re: Why the Amazon Is on Fire

#15

Post by TheBobinator »

vixen99 wrote: post #6

"Using current NASA data, Amazonian fires show a decline over the record, and are nowhere close to a record so far in 2019." https://www.globalfiredata.org/forecast.html#elbeni

Citylab is owned by The Atlantic media Group.

The Atlantic was sold in 2017 to the Emerson Collective.

The Emerson collective is a philanthropic endeavour of Laurene Powell Jobs, wife of late Steve Jobs.

Literally this article was published by the wife of a silicon valley tycoon.

This is why I only read IPCC Studies and pay attention to them. If the world burns out because of global warming, it'll be due to Scare-articles like this one.

Re: Why the Amazon Is on Fire

#16

Post by vfc1 »

endorphone wrote: post #11
vfc1 wrote: post #5

The main responsibility of the Amazon fires lies in the west. The Amazon is on fire in order for Brasil to be able to provide cheap meat for western countries. This comes under two main forms, one is to make room for soy crops, used mostly for cattle feed and not for direct human consumption, the other is for creating pasture land. The west, as well as China, encourage the Amazon fires by favorable trade agreements w…

"The Amazon is on fire in order for Brasil to be able to provide cheap meat for western countries." The largest markets for Brazil beef are, in order, Hong Kong, China, Russia, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Chile, and Venezuela. I don't think this qualifies as "Western Countries". A very small amount, relative to those consumers, goes to the EU. Close to none goes to the United States or Canada -- a minuscule novelty am…

And where do those countries and the west get their soy? The top export of Brasil are soy beans (for cattle feed), it's a 26 billion market - https://oec.world/en/profile/country/bra/#targetText=The%20t....

Re: Why the Amazon Is on Fire

#17

Post by [deleted] »

endorphone wrote: post #11
vfc1 wrote: post #5

The main responsibility of the Amazon fires lies in the west. The Amazon is on fire in order for Brasil to be able to provide cheap meat for western countries. This comes under two main forms, one is to make room for soy crops, used mostly for cattle feed and not for direct human consumption, the other is for creating pasture land. The west, as well as China, encourage the Amazon fires by favorable trade agreements w…

"The Amazon is on fire in order for Brasil to be able to provide cheap meat for western countries." The largest markets for Brazil beef are, in order, Hong Kong, China, Russia, Iran, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Chile, and Venezuela. I don't think this qualifies as "Western Countries". A very small amount, relative to those consumers, goes to the EU. Close to none goes to the United States or Canada -- a minuscule novelty am…

[deleted]

Re: Why the Amazon Is on Fire

#18

Post by tanto »

wsxcde wrote: post #9

If you are seriously concerned about climate change, pressure your government to impose a large tax on beef and pay the proceeds from that tax directly to the people living in the amazon basin. That will incentivize them against deforestation. Expecting poor people to voluntarily give up on the opportunity to make money because you are threatened about your children's future but can't even be arsed to reduce your own…

Wouldn't that incentivize them to sell more cattle to create more tax income and in return more proceeds to them? Also you are saying

> people living in the amazon basin

are the ones producing all the beef or rather some big land lords?

I concur with the taxation but not paying the money to some other country - rather invest in alternatives.

Re: Why the Amazon Is on Fire

#19

Post by dangoor »

wsxcde wrote: post #9

If you are seriously concerned about climate change, pressure your government to impose a large tax on beef and pay the proceeds from that tax directly to the people living in the amazon basin. That will incentivize them against deforestation. Expecting poor people to voluntarily give up on the opportunity to make money because you are threatened about your children's future but can't even be arsed to reduce your own…

> If you are seriously concerned about climate change, pressure your government to impose a large tax on beef and pay the proceeds from that tax directly to the people living in the amazon basin. That will incentivize them against deforestation.

But if the income they're receiving is coming from a tax on beef, wouldn't they want to produce more?

Re: Why the Amazon Is on Fire

#20

Post by aeroman »

vixen99 wrote: post #6

"Using current NASA data, Amazonian fires show a decline over the record, and are nowhere close to a record so far in 2019." https://www.globalfiredata.org/forecast.html#elbeni

It depends which region you are looking at - Amazonas (for example), is much closer to a record.

https://www.globalfiredata.org/forecast.html#amazonas

It is the biomass burning season, so you do expect some fires anyway - I am not clear quite how this year fits in overall.

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