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Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

latimes.com

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Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#331

Post by seanmcdirmid »

cassbot wrote: post #105
ccccppppp wrote: post #25

Or how many Russians don't understand why Ukraine for example is upset. Is as if propaganda works. Who would have thought. Once I was discussing with a Chinese colleague and the Tiananmen subject came up (it was in the news, I didn't bring it up), and he told me that the students were not that innocent either, that they killed 150 soldiers the night before. I asked him, how could some students with rocks kill 150 sol…

As a Chinese American, I've noticed that propaganda is everywhere and we all need to be wary of it. Tiananmen is often brought up, but did you know that the US experienced a parallel event? I didn't learn about this in US history class, but apparently soldiers fired upon unarmed student protesters in the Kent State shooting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

You are free to talk about Kent state, it is covered in a lot of documentaries. There is even a monument at Kent State about it (as opposed to the “nothing happened here 6/4/89” plaque at Tiananmen Square). It isn’t taught in HS history class for the sake reason that Vietnam war is not taught (there is simply too much history and not enough time to cover it all).

A reasonable comparison might be Black Wall Street, but even then discussion about the event isn’t suppressed, just at the time the event was covered up by the local government of the area. But the CCP doesn’t remember the Siege of Changchun either.

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#332

Post by silentmajority1 »

It's very hard for people to think different, if you were born in an environment that ever since you were born, the ideas of loving/supporting the party is a must because she saved us, a-single-unified-country is the most important for our success, we were once the most wealthy country but got robbed by the western countries and Japan now it's time to take things back...etc. were instilled to you from kid's songs, cartoons, tv shows, books... basically everything around you.

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#333

Post by seppin »

peteretep wrote: post #211
seppin wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many years have you spent in jail as a political prisoner?

The same amount as the vast majority of of people in China: 0

The millions in Xinjiang would like a word. Why do you spend your free time defending a brutal autocracy on the internet?

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#334

Post by thatfrenchguy »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #30

I think a lot of people who were born in the west don't understand that, when you're very poor, economic circumstances matter more than political freedom. After all, having money (or not) affects what you can or cannot do far more than whoever's in charge. Chinese people today have lived through an economic miracle. If I lived there I doubt I'd criticize their system, especially considering people still can remember…

> Chinese people today have lived through an economic miracle. If I lived there I doubt I'd criticize their system, especially considering people still can remember worse times. For young Hong Kongers however, they didn't live during British rule. They were born into wealth, and now their own career prospects (like many millenials around the world) aren't great. So they protest.

... And their kids will probably look at their own situation being worse than their parents and protests in response.

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#335

Post by seppin »

mitfahrener wrote: post #295
seppin wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if all the HK youth got cushy finance jobs like the previous generation, these protests would have never happened You are assuming HKers would sell their freedom to a tyrprican government in exchange for GDP growth the way mainland Chinese can. That's a big assumption.

Singapore. Low on freedom, high on equality/housing. No protest.

Singapore doesn't operate consideration camps or have political prisoners, they just don't allow chewing gum.

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#336

Post by seppin »

_ptgt wrote: post #204
seppin wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if all the HK youth got cushy finance jobs like the previous generation, these protests would have never happened You are assuming HKers would sell their freedom to a tyrprican government in exchange for GDP growth the way mainland Chinese can. That's a big assumption.

It's not like mainlanders every really had a choice. Their own protests were crushed with tanks in 1989 and they've been relentlessly propagandized on everything from the papers to the schools to social media since then. I have zero doubts such strong propaganda efforts over decades would yield similar results on the vast majority Americans had it happened here.

Writing off the surrender of mainlanders of all their rights to "effective propaganda" is undercutting the very real sense of grievance and fear/hatred of foreigners already present.

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#337

Post by NoodleIncident »

markus_zhang wrote: post #163
NoodleIncident wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example. the protesters in HK was not even put into prison for some of their violent actions, and if that's not enough I really can't say more. I'm neither educated nor motivated enough to argue with most of this. But preventing China from punishing HK people according to China's laws is the _entire point_ of the protests, is it not?

It might be legitimate for a western people e.g. you may be used to get different laws in different levels of government, but it's utterly unthinkable for the Chinese. The fact that HK even keeps foreign judges and officials pretty much surprised a lot of Chinese.

I didn't ask for your opinion about the protests, because you've already made it quite obvious. It is complete bullshit to use them as an example to say that the freedom of speech of the average Chinese citizen isn't restricted.

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#339

Post by umeshunni »

EarthMephit wrote: post #235
markus_zhang wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd love to imagine, but in reality TBH I don't see a lot of positive examples. If you hate the one-party idea, just think one more layer -- there are factions inside the party, probably more than 2 actually.

New Zealand, all the Nordic countries, many western democracies all provide very good examples of good government without jailing people who speak up against their rulers and without strict censorship laws They are all really nice countries to live in too

New Zealand and all the Nordic countries can fit into a suburb of Shanghai.

I think most westerners don't realize the magnitude of China and that managing/ruling/governing a country of 1.3B diverse citizens with thousands of a years of history is a larger challenge than managing a small country.

Re: Why so many Chinese students can’t understand the Hong Kong protests

#340

Post by aiyodev »

This article is a perfect example of why free speech is important for everyone. There’s a lot of talk about censoring people who have the wrong opinions, that communicating an wrong idea is harmful.

Communicating incorrect opinions about China allowed the author’s friends to correct him. And now he can share a unique perspective that they cannot because they were never on the wrong side of the issue.

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