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How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

parenting.nytimes.com

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Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#221

Post by magduf »

jly wrote: post #195
koolba wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When our 9 month old started to sleep through the night (at around 4-5 months), we'd get between 5-6 hours of sleep, which after the interrupted sleep of the previous 4 months, felt like a full night's sleep but this is sleep deprivation territory, specially given the fact that it was 7 days a week. Assuming you have the space for it, I never understood couples that insist on both parents being woken up every night…

Logically this makes sense but it can be tricky to implement successfully for everyone. For breast-fed infants, it may be the case that mom has to be more frequently involved in the overnight care. It makes sense for dad to get as much sleep as possible in this case, but that can lead to resentment and other issues. My wife and I traded off as you indicated but that was no picnic, either. We found it easier to split…

>nobody is going to 'well-rested' when there are only two people taking care of an infant.

Sometimes I wonder if people would be a lot better off if they formed 3-6 adult family units for the purpose of sharing resources and raising kids.

Back in the "old days", and still in many non-Western cultures, grandparents live with parents and help with family care.

Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#222

Post by rconti »

saganus wrote: post #192
koolba wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When our 9 month old started to sleep through the night (at around 4-5 months), we'd get between 5-6 hours of sleep, which after the interrupted sleep of the previous 4 months, felt like a full night's sleep but this is sleep deprivation territory, specially given the fact that it was 7 days a week. Assuming you have the space for it, I never understood couples that insist on both parents being woken up every night…

I'm not a parent so my knowledge here is pretty scarce, but what I've understood from friends that have kids, is that when a baby wakes up, both parents wake up due to instinct (i.e. is the baby ok?). So I wonder if what you suggest would require some accomodation. E.g. have the 'on-call' parent sleep in the same room as the baby, and the other one can sleep in another room with the door closed. Is this what you mean…

I'm not even sure you need the door closed or a large house. Particularly when sleep-deprived, I think you'll start sleeping right through it, as soon as you adjust to the fact that someone is closer to the problem, and managing it to the best of their ability. Your brain is great at figuring out what needs to wake you and what you can sleep through.

I sleep right through my wife's alarms going off, and her phone is merely on the other side of the bed.

She, in turn, sleeps through my phone's alarm and my annoying klaxon on the dresser. Obviously this doesn't happen on the first night or five, but you get used to it.

Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#223

Post by rconti »

mleo wrote: post #173
DrAwdeOccarim wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't noticed the "anything about a newborn/small child must be 100% positive" in my group of friends, especially my work colleagues. I've been pretty straight forward about how hard the whole thing has been, especially adding a second child to the mix before the first one was 2 yo. I wouldn't recommend having a second child to anyone unless they really, really wanted it. It's hard af. Logarithmically harder than…

I can see the social media aspect of presenting the perfect child persona, but it is BS. Going to three is exponentially harder. With two, one parent can usually manage both or worse each can manage one kid. Go to three and parents are outnumbered. And generally only two kids ever get along at one time, so there always the outlier. Even numbers are best it seems.

yeah, as a non-parent (ha!), my main exposure to parenting is my friends on social media. I don't talk to my parent friends about kid stuff much, because I don't care, and they don't care to tell yet another person.

I'm sure parent-to-parent IRL, people are a lot more negative (read:realistic) about their experiences.

Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#224

Post by rconti »

outside1234 wrote: post #217
agent008t wrote: post #132

So, reading this thread is making me really not want to have children. Seems like one would have to be completely insane to voluntarily sign up for that. People that have children. Do you think it was honestly a good idea in retrospect, and if so, why? If your wife had been on the fence about having children, would you have preferred to go child-free, in retrospect?

You need to be passionate about it. If you are on the fence, in my opinion, go child free. It's better for the environment (the mountain of plastic and CO2 that having kids causes is astounding) and there are plenty of people in the world that are passionate about having kids.

Thanks for the opinion. I feel the same way as the parent poster - this thread is fairly horrifying, particularly as someone who has spent the past couple of years on personal growth, particularly improving my fitness and sleep.

Always been on the fence, keep hoping I want to have kids some day, because I sure don't want to go into it with a negative attitude. I don't want to "miss out" and regret having lived a childless life when I'm 70, but I sure don't want anything about that lifestyle today. My wife seems to be much the same way. We always talk about "some day, if we have kids.." but nearing our 40s, some day doesn't seem to come.

I absolutely believe it must be rewarding in a way I cannot imagine -- just as most 'worthwhile' pursuits that take time and effort and learning and growth are. And precisely because the benefits are non-obvious (I don't really enjoy anything about being around children). I've found raising pets to be far more rewarding than I could have imagined, so I'm sure children must be 100 or 1000x that reward.

But, just like I don't need to take on every challenge the world has to offer (someone else can die on Everest, others can become passionate about their skydiving hobby), I'll pick and choose my challenges.

Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#225

Post by war1025 »

hawski wrote: post #83

I've got Tinnitus. I should have used ear plugs or rather a heavy duty hearing protection much earlier. My daughter had problems with her stomach or with us trying to put some clothes on her. The scream amplitude and frequency in a small bathroom are a horrendous combination. I joked at the time that she sounded like Nazgûl.

Our youngest daughter screamed something terrible for months and months when she was a baby. There was a period of maybe two months where I thought I had permanent hearing loss from it.

Went to the doctor and turned out that I had a cold as some point and the pressure in my ear never equalized back correctly, which meant the ear drum couldn't vibrate right. A couple weeks of allergy medicine seemed to fix the issue.

Around that time though, I bought a pair of ear muffs and wore them every time I had to put her to bed or change her diaper. Amazing. Highly recommended.

Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#226

Post by rednerrus »

roland35 wrote: post #147
tus88 wrote: post #60

> Women become pregnant before they become mothers. Men become pregnant after they become fathers. I heard this joke a while ago, and while cruel seems to have an element of truth to it by observation. Lack of sleep, lack of exercise, less time to make healthy meals seems to be a terrible combination for weight gain.

The dad-body is real! As hard as it is for men I still think it is much harder for moms.

I prefer the "father figure."

Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#227

Post by crunchyfrog »

agent008t wrote: post #132

So, reading this thread is making me really not want to have children. Seems like one would have to be completely insane to voluntarily sign up for that. People that have children. Do you think it was honestly a good idea in retrospect, and if so, why? If your wife had been on the fence about having children, would you have preferred to go child-free, in retrospect?

I also struggled with the decision whether to have kids. I don't generally like kids or kids stuff. I was very happy with how I spent my time. It seemed like huge sacrifice and also a leap of faith into a new life with no way back.

Long story short, I did have kids and it was the right decision. And if I were able to talk to myself when I was struggling with the decision, I would say "Don't miss this experience. There is nothing else in life like it. It is hard but it is worth it."

Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#228

Post by Japhy_Ryder »

anonu wrote: post #161

I am 14 months into kid #1. I've observed friends and family who are well into kid #2. My thought process was that going from 1 to 2 was going to follow some sort of logarithmic increase in complexity - but I am now convinced that the change is exponential. With 1, you can split the work. With 2, the dad will probably be focused on the older kid and the mom on the younger kid. Thus, there is less help to go around. M…

> logarithmic increase in complexity - but I am now convinced that the change is exponential.

Good god. Is everything a math problem for you people?

It's called 'figuring life out'. Sometimes there's not a 'logarithmic increase in complexity'. You just wing it. And you figure it out.

Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#229

Post by philwelch »

koolba wrote: post #171
reallydontask wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Annedoctally as a recent father of a 6 month old, I would likely self report a good sleep quality in a questionnaire. However, objectively I know I sleep about 5 hours 30min yesterday evening, which would be sufficient sleep 'deprivation' to impact T production. When our 9 month old started to sleep through the night (at around 4-5 months), we'd get between 5-6 hours of sleep, which after the interrupted sleep of t…

> When our 9 month old started to sleep through the night (at around 4-5 months), we'd get between 5-6 hours of sleep, which after the interrupted sleep of the previous 4 months, felt like a full night's sleep but this is sleep deprivation territory, specially given the fact that it was 7 days a week. Assuming you have the space for it, I never understood couples that insist on both parents being woken up every night…

I don’t have kids but my wife and I have discussed having an explicit shift rotation where one of us stays home with the baby during the day while the other works, sleeps in the early evening when the working parent gets home, and gets up at night when the working parent goes to bed. I always wonder if it would actually work.

Re: How Men’s Bodies Change When They Become Fathers

#230

Post by philwelch »

nradov wrote: post #162
reallydontask wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Annedoctally as a recent father of a 6 month old, I would likely self report a good sleep quality in a questionnaire. However, objectively I know I sleep about 5 hours 30min yesterday evening, which would be sufficient sleep 'deprivation' to impact T production. When our 9 month old started to sleep through the night (at around 4-5 months), we'd get between 5-6 hours of sleep, which after the interrupted sleep of t…

Lack of exercise doesn't necessarily make it easier to survive sleep deprivation. It would be rather the opposite for most people since some moderate exercise tends to improve the quality of the limited sleep that you do get.

Exercise helps you sleep better, so if you don’t exercise, you already sleep like crap and the other stuff doesn’t make a difference.
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