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Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

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Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#131

Post by gnusty_gnurc »

thomasfromcdnjs wrote: post #104
RonaldSchleifer wrote: post #16

[flagged]

I am in the same boat. I don't even know why I have to be called a climate change denier or skeptic. The onus is on people who believe the climate is changing to prove it. As to say, it is not my job to disprove something that hasn't been proved. Now obviously there is "proof" in circulation. But what is it proving? Have any prediction targets been met at all? How much will the sea tides rise and when? How much would…

I agree with you generally about the hubris of people, even highly educated, re: the ability to forecast the future. And even accepting the predictions of various reports, etc. it's not completely clear that the world will be as bad as most are saying. We're richer than ever, all forecasts seem to point to a better world where even under the threat of climate change we'd be better off to cope with it than in any other timeline or point in history.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#132

Post by Rolivaw »

pfarrell wrote: post #82
RobertRoberts wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Recognizing emotions as part of the problem and solution feels like a big step. I think this is actually the worst thing we can do. Science is facts, cold hard facts. If you want to get rid of the science and focus on emotions, then the solutions to the _real_ problem will get distorted.

The science of what is happening is fact. The method by which we engage our collective powers to act is a people problem. We can come together in action, but that requires connecting with as many of our personalities and psyches as possible.

There aren’t good solutions yet. That’s a cold hard fact. Reducing emission isn’t going to help and it’s not a start. It’s a losers battle. We need carbon sequestering tech, fusion, and new tech to solve this.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#133

Post by kazagistar »

sleepysysadmin wrote: post #107

The problem with climate change isn't climate change. It's because it has become co-opted by politics. It's now impossible to discuss climate change without becoming political. The politics don't even agree relative to the side. Climate change has left the spectrum of left-right wing.

Any change that affects society is going to be political. Why is this a surprise? How could it be different?

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#134

Post by pat12 »

ovi256 wrote: post #68
youareawesome wrote: post #15

I've gotten a vasectomy exactly because it's clear that some of the worst outcomes of human-created climate change are inevitable, and I recommend anyone who cares about the environment and the well-being of their potential children to do the same. My only question is what to do when the world actually ends in 10 or so years. I'm thinking of quitting my job in SF and moving to a rural area in northern midwest far fro…

Encouraging the people concerned with the long term future to not have children is basically an amazing plan a super-villain could come with to ensure there will significantly less opposition to climate change in the next generation. Well done.

This is nature's gift to human kind that the winners of yesterday become the losers of tomorrow, and on it goes, always changing, always in balance.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#135

Post by justin66 »

apo wrote: post #61

I'm sure the emotions are genuine, but articles like this leave me with a sense that those concerned are waiting for others (especially "leaders") to make something happen. They want electric cars to be mandated so they can continue their addiction to the automobile despite the severe environmental effects of car culture regardless of the fuel source. They want government to force companies to develop carbon neutral…

Solving climate change is a collective action problem. Action taken with other people is the entire game.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#136

Post by NeedMoreTea »

RankingMember wrote: post #119
NeedMoreTea wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might want to consider donating to some of the groups that have sprung up. Two that have had recent visibility are: Extinction Rebellion, organisers of the civil disobedience protests in the UK and elsewhere - https://rebellion.earth Client Earth, a legal charity aiming to repeatedly take governments to court on climate matters. Became much more visible when Dave Gilmour made a major donation recently: https://ww…

Got any good US-based charity recommendations? Both of those seem Euro-centric.

XR has a US site: https://extinctionrebellion.us

They're not quite as established in the US yet as they landed there later, but are active and growing. The whole movement is only around a year or so old. They've achieved remarkable visibility and growth the time since the first UK demos.

Client Earth has a US arm: https://www.clientearth.org/usa/ though it doesn't look terribly active. I suspect there are better US equivalents that have achieved more stateside. I don't know who though, sorry.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#137

Post by tomjen3 »

NeedMoreTea wrote: post #49
daenz wrote: post #9

I'm of the belief that the only thing that will accomplish the goals set out by those who care at the level of the author is actual, literal, worldwide fascism. And I also believe that climate-agnostic entities (who don't care one way or another) will be waiting in the wings opportunistically as people start to call for that fascism.

Why? The Allies fought and won WW2 without fascism. The UK had a coalition government of the two major parties for most of the war. We need a WW2 scale response, perhaps with similar restrictions like rationing - only this time of carbon or flights etc. Once some nations are active, others will join. Perhaps we need to see carbon and environmental impacts baked into import tariffs to "encourage" reluctant others to j…

The restrictions on freedom of speech, etc in the UK during WWII would easily be called facists today, and they are entirely incompatible with the US constitution.

I would also argue that rationing in general is incompatible with a free country. If necessary add a fair tax that is ear-marked to deal with global warming and which ofsets the damage. No reason to add more bureaucracy.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#138

Post by kolbe »

youareawesome wrote: post #15

I've gotten a vasectomy exactly because it's clear that some of the worst outcomes of human-created climate change are inevitable, and I recommend anyone who cares about the environment and the well-being of their potential children to do the same. My only question is what to do when the world actually ends in 10 or so years. I'm thinking of quitting my job in SF and moving to a rural area in northern midwest far fro…

One problem with this is the exact type of person who would think to do this is probably the type of person we need more of. An Idiocracy will be even worse for the environment.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#139

Post by tomjen3 »

Mikeb85 wrote: post #30
RonaldSchleifer wrote: post #16

[flagged]

> hold China and India responsible for their wildly outsized levels of pollution once you control for their per capita contribution to humanity China and India contribute 4-10 times less CO2 per capita than the US.

You skipped the last part.

Personally I am not happy going down the route of weighting the value of humans, but if we don't come up a solution to global warming that is politically actionable, somebody will start arguing that the west should do something about the rise of China and India. If we can only support 4 billion people on the planet, nobody will want to be in the group that has to be killed.

Re: Yes, I’m Feeling Bad About Climate Change. Let’s Discuss

#140

Post by CalRobert »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #39
CalRobert wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is that? Also, I detest fascism - but devil's advocate - is fascism worse than literal extinction?

"Also, I detest fascism - but devil's advocate - is fascism worse than literal extinction?" Why in the world do you think that democratic structures will make it intact through a descent into extinction. I'm not going to cite Mad Max as a sociological point, but society will break down under unmitigated global warming. When food and water safety cannot be met, law loses its authority. You can see this on a small scal…

I don't. You and I agree.
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